Question to throw to the group out of curiosity -- What do people think about reasonable seed times for swim meets? Now, I know that people almost always enter masters meets with times that are best guesses, but what about entry times that are definitely not best guesses?
Hypothetical scenario: 400 IM and 50 free are back-to-back events at an end-of-season championship meet. Swimmer enters both events, with a time of 15:00.00 for the 400 IM, and 23.50 for the 50 free. For other events in the meet, the same swimmer is entered at 2:06 for the 200 IM, 2:10 for the 200 fly, etc. So _clearly_ this person is faster than 15:00 in the 400 IM. When asked, the swimmer says, honestly, that the seed time is bogus so that he has a longer rest before swimming the 50 free right afterwards. (The meet info for this hypothetical situation does _not_ allow for 'NT' entries.)
What do people think about this? I can't find any USMS rule that prohibits this, but it feels rather unfair to the other people in Heat 1 who actually do belong in Heat 1, and will have some fast person in an outside lane lap them a couple times. My personal feeling is that if the order of events doesn't work for you, then don't swim one of the events.
Thoughts?
-Rick
There are a couple of things to point out:
(1) For Nationals, the clerk of the course may change a sandbaggers time (see 104.5.5A (11) If a swimmer enteres a deck seeded event with a time significantly slower than his/her recently recorded time, the meet director may, after notifying the swimmer, change the seeded time to a realistic time.
(2) for those of us on the west coast (and I am sure the "new center of Masters racing" ;-) will find out) trying to keep meet managable is a concern for meet management. Pacific Masters championships will start at 9 am and it is not unusual to be still swimming at 6:30 or later that evening. It is important for the time line that a realistic time for each splash be given. A person who writes down a 15:00 500 free then has a 5:00 swim has just lengthed the meet. (the 5:00 swimmer took the spot of the 9:00 swimmer who should be in the first heat, it works it way down).
Yes it is unsportsmanlike conduct. The swimmer for his own selfish reasons has just lengthed the meet for all the officials and the rest of the swimmers.
We try to put the seed the swimmers in the correct heat. There have been many times when a swimmer put the 100 time in the 200 race. Hopefully those are caught before the heat is seeded.
In the freestyle the swimmer can swim any stroke the swimmer would like to swim. If the swimmer wants to swim the 200 breaststroke in the 200 free. The swimmer should go for it. I agree with Wayne, race conditions are not the same as practice no matter how we want it to be.
If a freestyle swimmer is being passed by the breaststroke swimmer, what does the freestyle swimmer have to be upset about? Gee the breaststroke is a better swimmer than me? Lets get realistic about our own strokes and times. Yes we want to swim faster and to swim our best, but we also have to be aware of our own times. (and of course maybe a goal for the freestyle swimmer being passed is to beat the time of the breaststroke who beat him in that heat).
Rick and Bob, I would suggest that the "new center of Masters racing" add a rule like 105.5.5A (11) to the NEM Guide to Operations.
michael
There are a couple of things to point out:
(1) For Nationals, the clerk of the course may change a sandbaggers time (see 104.5.5A (11) If a swimmer enteres a deck seeded event with a time significantly slower than his/her recently recorded time, the meet director may, after notifying the swimmer, change the seeded time to a realistic time.
(2) for those of us on the west coast (and I am sure the "new center of Masters racing" ;-) will find out) trying to keep meet managable is a concern for meet management. Pacific Masters championships will start at 9 am and it is not unusual to be still swimming at 6:30 or later that evening. It is important for the time line that a realistic time for each splash be given. A person who writes down a 15:00 500 free then has a 5:00 swim has just lengthed the meet. (the 5:00 swimmer took the spot of the 9:00 swimmer who should be in the first heat, it works it way down).
Yes it is unsportsmanlike conduct. The swimmer for his own selfish reasons has just lengthed the meet for all the officials and the rest of the swimmers.
We try to put the seed the swimmers in the correct heat. There have been many times when a swimmer put the 100 time in the 200 race. Hopefully those are caught before the heat is seeded.
In the freestyle the swimmer can swim any stroke the swimmer would like to swim. If the swimmer wants to swim the 200 breaststroke in the 200 free. The swimmer should go for it. I agree with Wayne, race conditions are not the same as practice no matter how we want it to be.
If a freestyle swimmer is being passed by the breaststroke swimmer, what does the freestyle swimmer have to be upset about? Gee the breaststroke is a better swimmer than me? Lets get realistic about our own strokes and times. Yes we want to swim faster and to swim our best, but we also have to be aware of our own times. (and of course maybe a goal for the freestyle swimmer being passed is to beat the time of the breaststroke who beat him in that heat).
Rick and Bob, I would suggest that the "new center of Masters racing" add a rule like 105.5.5A (11) to the NEM Guide to Operations.
michael
