Question to throw to the group out of curiosity -- What do people think about reasonable seed times for swim meets? Now, I know that people almost always enter masters meets with times that are best guesses, but what about entry times that are definitely not best guesses?
Hypothetical scenario: 400 IM and 50 free are back-to-back events at an end-of-season championship meet. Swimmer enters both events, with a time of 15:00.00 for the 400 IM, and 23.50 for the 50 free. For other events in the meet, the same swimmer is entered at 2:06 for the 200 IM, 2:10 for the 200 fly, etc. So _clearly_ this person is faster than 15:00 in the 400 IM. When asked, the swimmer says, honestly, that the seed time is bogus so that he has a longer rest before swimming the 50 free right afterwards. (The meet info for this hypothetical situation does _not_ allow for 'NT' entries.)
What do people think about this? I can't find any USMS rule that prohibits this, but it feels rather unfair to the other people in Heat 1 who actually do belong in Heat 1, and will have some fast person in an outside lane lap them a couple times. My personal feeling is that if the order of events doesn't work for you, then don't swim one of the events.
Thoughts?
-Rick
Parents
Former Member
Gail,
You are a great swimmer with lots of records. I can only guess that you have competed in excess of 1000 meets in your lifetime. I just can't believe you would rag on breaststrokers swimming in a free event. We could easily go into the inequities during the last 40+ years, why are there a 50, 100, 200, 400 (500) 1000 and 1650 freestyle and only three breaststroke or butterfly events. So when I swim in a meet that has an award for High points in an age group, the freestyler automatically have a huge advantage.
Believe me, any fast (young) swimmer that either through seeding or error gets put in a lane with older swimmers (60+) they are not out there to embarrass you. You are the first person I have ever heard that felt bad about swimming with younger swimmers swimming back, fly or breaststroke. Most people are like me, long before getting on the blocks, I will tell everyone in the heat that I will be swimming fly or breaststroke, so they will not be confused. That is just common courtesy. I cannot tell you how many times I have seen a 200 free race with two lanes swimming free, two back, and two breaststroke. The reason for this is we really, really need racing at this distance. NO amount of workout or "focus" can equal racing.
Lets put this from a different perspective. In SPMA a meet provider can run any event they choose. So say every single meet host during the season chooses the 200 free, but not one 200 *** or 200 fly. It can happen. What would you do? Especially if you wanted to do well at Nationals, I think you would enter a 200 free race and swim a 200 fly if that was your goal.
Also lets keep in mind that we do have specific rules that are vastly different at Nationals. No 22-year-old man swimming in your women’s 400 freestyle event. That is why we want to be inclusive at local meets. Give everyone a chance. Many your swimmers have a much harder time taking off from work or have a lot of family responsibilities. So they may be only able to swim on one day of a three-day meet. I have been there and done that, as they say. So I want them to be able to swim whatever five events they can get in on that day. And they might have three-four races in a row, so they might "sandbag" one event to get more rest for the next event. Most of our older swimmers are retired, don't have to worry about spending 3-4 days at a swim meet. And when they enter a 44.5 in the 200 fly, do we laugh or embarrass them. No. We offer them a proper heat or let them swim in the fast heat. And they will get a lot more cheers for just finishing than any young guy will ever get. And why do we cheer so loud. Because every one of us whether 19 or 50, want to live and still be competing in that 200 fly when we are older (80 -90-even 100+).
Another bottom line, every one of us is in awe of people like Gail Roper, Rita Simonton and other women like that. In SPMA a whole generation of swimmers, both male and female have lived in awe of Frank Piemme. Many swimmers goals were for years one thing, to swim as fast as Frank. They did not care if he was 20, 30, 40, or 50 years older, he is a role model and just equaling his time made them feel great. I will bet that in your association, many younger swimmers feel the same about you. They may never swim as fast as Lara Val, but if they equal your time, they are as fast as someone truly great. Ask around. I will bet you are a goal for many swimmers.
Wayne McCauley
Gail,
You are a great swimmer with lots of records. I can only guess that you have competed in excess of 1000 meets in your lifetime. I just can't believe you would rag on breaststrokers swimming in a free event. We could easily go into the inequities during the last 40+ years, why are there a 50, 100, 200, 400 (500) 1000 and 1650 freestyle and only three breaststroke or butterfly events. So when I swim in a meet that has an award for High points in an age group, the freestyler automatically have a huge advantage.
Believe me, any fast (young) swimmer that either through seeding or error gets put in a lane with older swimmers (60+) they are not out there to embarrass you. You are the first person I have ever heard that felt bad about swimming with younger swimmers swimming back, fly or breaststroke. Most people are like me, long before getting on the blocks, I will tell everyone in the heat that I will be swimming fly or breaststroke, so they will not be confused. That is just common courtesy. I cannot tell you how many times I have seen a 200 free race with two lanes swimming free, two back, and two breaststroke. The reason for this is we really, really need racing at this distance. NO amount of workout or "focus" can equal racing.
Lets put this from a different perspective. In SPMA a meet provider can run any event they choose. So say every single meet host during the season chooses the 200 free, but not one 200 *** or 200 fly. It can happen. What would you do? Especially if you wanted to do well at Nationals, I think you would enter a 200 free race and swim a 200 fly if that was your goal.
Also lets keep in mind that we do have specific rules that are vastly different at Nationals. No 22-year-old man swimming in your women’s 400 freestyle event. That is why we want to be inclusive at local meets. Give everyone a chance. Many your swimmers have a much harder time taking off from work or have a lot of family responsibilities. So they may be only able to swim on one day of a three-day meet. I have been there and done that, as they say. So I want them to be able to swim whatever five events they can get in on that day. And they might have three-four races in a row, so they might "sandbag" one event to get more rest for the next event. Most of our older swimmers are retired, don't have to worry about spending 3-4 days at a swim meet. And when they enter a 44.5 in the 200 fly, do we laugh or embarrass them. No. We offer them a proper heat or let them swim in the fast heat. And they will get a lot more cheers for just finishing than any young guy will ever get. And why do we cheer so loud. Because every one of us whether 19 or 50, want to live and still be competing in that 200 fly when we are older (80 -90-even 100+).
Another bottom line, every one of us is in awe of people like Gail Roper, Rita Simonton and other women like that. In SPMA a whole generation of swimmers, both male and female have lived in awe of Frank Piemme. Many swimmers goals were for years one thing, to swim as fast as Frank. They did not care if he was 20, 30, 40, or 50 years older, he is a role model and just equaling his time made them feel great. I will bet that in your association, many younger swimmers feel the same about you. They may never swim as fast as Lara Val, but if they equal your time, they are as fast as someone truly great. Ask around. I will bet you are a goal for many swimmers.
Wayne McCauley
