Freestyle Flip Turn Question regarding New FINA IM Rules

I've got a slight issue with this interpretation. Is it really required to ever take an arm stroke in butterfly? There are no sequencing requirements in fly, so it seems like someone could just kick the entire race with their arms streamlined out front and not be disqualified as long as they surface by 15 meters off each wall. If that's the case it's contrary to this interpretation. By the way, I think this is one of the dumbest rule changes/clarifications of all time. It solved a problem which was not a problem to begin with. And, yes, I realize USMS is just aligning to the new FINA interpretation. FINA bears the responsibility for this abomination. kirk, you are correct on both!!! which is why, if you take a dolphin kick while on the ***, you are doing fly. therefore, DQ for swimming more than 1/4 of the IM fly, even on the *** and free legs. yes, this even surpases the tech suit debacle.

I think that at the next international meet Lochte is in where he swims the 400 IM he should do an open turn on the free to free turn and then ask why all the others weren't DQd(unless everyone radically alters their turns.)

Which is counter to virtually all current coaching on freestyle turns. Most swimmers aren't nearly as slow to rotate to "toward the ***" as Lochte, but the vast majority are coming off the wall somewhere between completely inverted and 90* to horizontal. Yes, and lots of people including ordinary middle-aged Masters swimmers such as myself do exactly what Lochte did when they swim shorter freestyle races. I am faster SDK-ing on my back than on my front, so I stay on my back underwater for a while when I swim the 50/100 free. But even in longer races where I spin and surface quickly because I need to breathe, I always push off on my back. I even work on it in practice! Just adds to breaststroke as one more reason never to race IM.

Which is counter to virtually all current coaching on freestyle turns. Most swimmers aren't nearly as slow to rotate to "toward the ***" as Lochte, but the vast majority are coming off the wall somewhere between completely inverted and 90* to horizontal. Precisely. I bet you never knew that, according to FINA, you've actually been swimming backstroke all this time during freestyle races. :banana:

Turns are considered discrete from swimming. You just need to be toward the *** when your feet leave the wall. Which is counter to virtually all current coaching on freestyle turns. Most swimmers aren't nearly as slow to rotate to "toward the ***" as Lochte, but the vast majority are coming off the wall somewhere between completely inverted and 90* to horizontal.

Given the image Rob posted, and Kathy's post, the only legal turn for the freestyle leg of IM would be an open turn. Is there any way to execute a flip turn without being on one's back prior to touching the wall? Turns are considered discrete from swimming. You just need to be toward the *** when your feet leave the wall.

Backstroke swimming is only defined as being on the back.I've seen this a couple times now and I'm curious where this comes from. Seems like a Wikipedia definition more than anything. I scanned the fina rules and couldn't find anything similar. Doesn't FINA define backstroke in SW6? If so, it seems like this statement is an oversimplification.

So many of us will have to change the way we turn free to free in the IMGiven the image Rob posted, and Kathy's post, the only legal turn for the freestyle leg of IM would be an open turn. Is there any way to execute a flip turn without being on one's back prior to touching the wall?

So many of us will have to change the way we turn free to free in the IM And this is why this is the dumbest rule change of all time. Why in the world should we be required to alter our freestyle flip turn technique for an IM? It makes no sense at all. It solves a problem that was not a problem to begin with. As we've already stated, if pushing off on your back = backstroke, then pushing off on your front and doing more than one dolphin kick = butterfly.

frank, you need to read rule 101.4.3 Durning the turn the shoulders may be turned past the vertical towards the ***, after which an immediate continuous single arm pull or an immediate continuous double arm pull maybe used to initiate the turn. VERY LEGAL on any backstroke turn of the 400 IM (both) and 200 IM scy. so here we have that it is perfectly legal to be on your *** for backstroke and even taking an arm pull, but you can NOT be on your back at any point during the freestyle of an IM. You are correct at the turning end for the stroke. In 400 IM its at the at the 125, 150, and 175 turn and the 200 IM its the 75 turn in scy and in LCM its at the 150 turn in the 400 and 150 turn in the 200. I was thinking the transition from back to *** at the 200 turn for the 400 IM and 100 turn for the 200 IM. So I need you to read rule 101.6.3 which states the swimmer must touch the wall while on his back. Once he flips or does an open turn the prescribed breaststroke form must be attained prior to the first arm stroke Since we are discussing transitions here, FINA could make the argument that when you push off on your back to do the free its not the correct transition at the wall because you can do 15 meters on your back and you should be on your front to start the crawl/free. IM has to be different for all 4 strokes and their argument is that you are essentially doing back for 15 meters because you are on your back kicking away. I am not saying its right or agreeing or disagreeing, but I think that is where this rule change rational is. Now like I said before, Ryan Lochte could do this in a freestyle event and it would be very legal because their is no transition or changing of strokes.