I read the following PDF regarding the updated rule and interpretation for the freestyle portion of the IM:
www.usms.org/.../20150911_fina_im_interpretation.pdf
My question is regarding the freestyle flip turn. When you turn, you flip onto your back, push off and start twisting to the proper position for freestyle. It usually happens fairly fast so you're not completely on the back for any more than one kick worth at the most and by then you've begun rotating to the side. Honestly, I still flip slightly diagonally, so my feet land a bit off-horizontal but I've been working on correcting it to what has been shown to me as a more proper technique.
But I know as soon as I post this notice for my masters team on Wednesday, they are going to ask the same questions. I would assume that this position of being on the back is normal in freestyle and wouldn't constitute backstroke swimming but I've been wrong plenty of times in trying to interpret rules. But it gets me into wondering, what's going to be the line between a normal freestyle flip turn and too much time on your back? Obviously, no SDK-ing on your back down the length of the pool but exactly how fast does that twist need to be? Is there a standpoint from the officials on this yet?
Thanks in advance!
FINA is saying being on one's back constitutes backstroke. There is nothing in the rules about kicking in backstroke so kicking or not kicking should not change the call.
completely correct.
past the vertical (ie not on the ***) and doing *anything* is backstroke. float and burp along and it is backstroke. no kick, no arms required. all that is required is being past the vertical.
I think the dolphin kick is the problem with the new interpretation:
"When a swimmer has traveled a sufficient distance that the official can with certainty judge that the competitor is swimming in the style of butterfly, breaststroke or backstroke, then a disqualification is appropriate."
If one pushes off on one's back and glides beyond 90 degrees before the first kick or pull, there shouldn't be a DQ, or at least a good basis for a challenge of one.
I know, there are always judges with a heightened sense of power, and I have been a victim of such once or twice.
actually, as soon as your feet leave the wall, if you are on the back (ie past the vertical) you are doing backstroke and it is a DQ.
the judge is supposed to: "without whiplash, starting at the feet, look up the body, and determine if they are past the vertical."
If one pushes off on one's back and glides beyond 90 degrees before the first kick or pull, there shouldn't be a DQ, or at least a good basis for a challenge of one.
Why do you say that? FINA is saying being on one's back constitutes backstroke. There is nothing in the rules about kicking in backstroke so kicking or not kicking should not change the call.
"But, butterfly states that a swimmer may make any number of arm pulls and/or any number of kicks but is not required to do both. So if a swimmer is in a position with shoulders rotated past vertical towards the *** with arms in streamline and is performing a kicking motion where both feet are moving up and down together. That really meets the definition of the style of butterfly so not sure where this train will end finally end up when it crashes."
That is a very good point. Doesn't the new rule mean you can't dolphin kick off the wall in the freestyle part of the IM? Am I missing something? Train wreck indeed.
I guess that gives us a bit more leeway to get onto our front on the turn, but it is still a pretty fuzzy interpretation and different turn judges will interpret this in a variety of ways.
Yes, this is the part that worries me. Most judges are going to realize the intent of the rule, but there's always going to be some strict interpreter who decides the letter of the law is that if you leave the wall toward your back it should be a DQ.
Yes, this is the part that worries me. Most judges are going to realize the intent of the rule, but there's always going to be some strict interpreter who decides the letter of the law is that if you leave the wall toward your back it should be a DQ.
I think the dolphin kick is the problem with the new interpretation:
"When a swimmer has traveled a sufficient distance that the official can with certainty judge that the competitor is swimming in the style of butterfly, breaststroke or backstroke, then a disqualification is appropriate."
If one pushes off on one's back and glides beyond 90 degrees before the first kick or pull, there shouldn't be a DQ, or at least a good basis for a challenge of one.
I know, there are always judges with a heightened sense of power, and I have been a victim of such once or twice.
if you could *glide/float* an entire 25m/y or 50m....yes
please also remember that now you can NOT turn over onto your back at any point during the freestyle of the IM or Medley relay.
however, there is NO time limit for your turn (take a break, talk to a turn judge, take 5 breaths) and you can hang on the lane rope as well (just dont pull/push off of it) and you can stand on the bottom (but again not walk/propel yourself off it).
But, butterfly states that a swimmer may make any number of arm pulls and/or any number of kicks but is not required to do both. So if a swimmer is in a position with shoulders rotated past vertical towards the *** with arms in streamline and is performing a kicking motion where both feet are moving up and down together. That really meets the definition of the style of butterfly so not sure where this train will end finally end up when it crashes.Do you have to do either (kick or pull)? Hypothetically, you could swim the butterfly, breaststroke and freestyle legs identically by just pushing off and streamlining on the *** without any kicks or pulls, right?
I was just at the convention in Kansas City for a day and asked several people if there has been discussion on this issue. Apparently, a new interpretation is coming and my source said that stroke judges will be told to watch the feet leave the wall and then, in a controlled manner ("no whiplash"), look up to see if the swimmer has moved toward the ***. If so, no DQ. I guess that gives us a bit more leeway to get onto our front on the turn, but it is still a pretty fuzzy interpretation and different turn judges will interpret this in a variety of ways.
