The new Master's coach philosophy is to do lower yardage and more IM. Lots of kicks (strengthen the core), lots of drills, and lots of toys (snorkel, skull finger paddles, regular paddles, zoomers, regular fins, *** stoke fins, finis tempo trainer, light weight kick board...) (disclaimer...I have not bought any of this stuff, just have the normal toys). I am in my 60's, have swum forever, many years in masters, raised age-group kids through college swimming, and am very confused.
I am used to 10 x 100 or 5 x 200's or couple 500's, IM once in a while, option to swim IM or free, kicks as a set in a workout, you know what I'm talkin' bout.
Now I am exhausted doing 90 minutes of kicks and sprints and only going 2000 yards. Flipping at the end of every set, using weight balls in the water, doing 6 x 100 *** stroke kick no hands, doing tandem training, example: swimming arm in arm with the other 60 year old doing fly kicks then holding his legs while I kick and he strokes, then vise versa. Now it is not always exhausting, but it seems always to be frustrating.
Working hard is not the problem, but working hard doing fly kicks in 50 meter pools is frustrating. And my distance flog is suffering. Not just 4 x 50 fly kicks, but 10 x 50 fly kicks.
It has been 4 months with new coach. Others say that they workouts are making them stronger for races and allowing them to be tougher. I worry about hurting my back, my shoulders, and not getting in my yardage.
Fitness swimming should be challenging and fun; I am a wimp? Should I give it more time? I like my team!
Somewhere back in here was mentioned that everyone on the team goes on the same intervals? That seems a bit off and sets off warning bells in my head. The top level doesn't want to be in a constant state of near taper and the speed challenged won't necessarily improve much if they are constantly on the gas without much rest. Everyone on 15 seconds rest, would be acceptable. But everyone's set of 10x50 on 45 seconds doesn't seem realistic. It's starting to sound like a case of new-coach-itis or someone who has only worked with a squad of similar abilities. You'd need to have a pretty tight range of talent to pull off a single interval for everyone. That would be the first thing I would be asking the coach to explain the method behind. Maybe the coach is assuming she's giving the fastest interval and each lane will adjust by 5 seconds without having to discuss every single lane and he figures you are all the most amazing team ever for keeping up. I know my high school coach was like that..(this lane always add 5 seconds per 50 unless I say otherwise, this lane 10, etc.).
Have you ever been to a Master's workout? I don't know what I would do if I wasn't ridiculed or dismissed multiple times during a workout.
I've worked as a masters coach for many years in the UK. I always ridicule and tease my swimmers throughout every workout. They expect this of me, and they love it!
Somewhere back in here was mentioned that everyone on the team goes on the same intervals? That seems a bit off and sets off warning bells in my head. The top level doesn't want to be in a constant state of near taper and the speed challenged won't necessarily improve much if they are constantly on the gas without much rest. Everyone on 15 seconds rest, would be acceptable. But everyone's set of 10x50 on 45 seconds doesn't seem realistic. It's starting to sound like a case of new-coach-itis or someone who has only worked with a squad of similar abilities. You'd need to have a pretty tight range of talent to pull off a single interval for everyone. That would be the first thing I would be asking the coach to explain the method behind. Maybe the coach is assuming she's giving the fastest interval and each lane will adjust by 5 seconds without having to discuss every single lane and he figures you are all the most amazing team ever for keeping up. I know my high school coach was like that..(this lane always add 5 seconds per 50 unless I say otherwise, this lane 10, etc.).
Absolutely agree. It's always hard to judge what the coach's philosophy is without seeing him/her in action, but having the entire team go on the same intervals will be a recipe for frustration. Masters swimming should be about inclusiveness, not just catered to the top performers, the main cliques in the team, or those willing to adhere to a specific atmosphere or dynamic led by certain members of the team. I think Flystorms really gave a heartfelt and telling post earlier on the thread, describing how the workouts were taking the fun out of what Masters swimming should be for her.
A good coach will maintain an open channel of communication with the swimmers so that she can better explain her point of view and her philosophy for the good of the entire team.
Wow. Ridiculing swimmers. Maybe I'll forget about finding a team.
Kind of depends on how it's done. I used to have a spin class instructor who described himself as an "equal opportunity abuser." But he was a performer, a comic, teasing everyone equally as he promised, and even when I was the target of his insults, they were so funny that I couldn't help but laugh.... And I could give as well as I got. At the end of one class, he asked how many were coming back, and getting into the spirit of his example, I said, "I have to come back. I heard this class was supposed to get hard and I just wanted to see when that would happen." Reply "You'll see!" On a one-to-one level, the guy was very friendly and helpful. I just took the insults with a grain of salt.
My current swim coaches won't put people down as people, though they might engage in some friendly teasing--nothing personally attacking, but just helping to motivate. They also know when to recognize a good effort and that's huge as well. I'm cool w/ someone critiquing and some joking around, as long as there's an underlying respect or (as in the case of the spin instructor) a sense that this is a part of an act, and there's an understanding that you can't take it personally.
Main thing is whether you know the coach/instructor is respectful of you as a person.
I can't really judge that aspect of the guy the OP discussed--he might just be coming to this with his own ideas/agenda about what workouts should be, and maybe it's an adjustment process which communication on both sides can help to foster.
I just think the attitude here sometimes gets a little snooty. And for your information, I have not ever complained to a coach or ragged on a coach in the locker room, and when I get in the pool I swim and shut my mouth and do the best I can.
No, you just take to the ethernets to whinge.
And, I've often found those who call others snooty are the mostest snootiest of all. The coolest and most laid back group of swimmers I've ever met are the hard core elite swimming crew I see at nationals. Chew you up in water but very cool on terra firma.
And, lastly, I don't have to assume my team is a shining example. It is proven 9 times a week when athletes from 18 to 80 of all levels show up and train together, and, as is uncommon in your world view of swimming, get along quite well, even shiningly.
Finally, I'd like to pass along some wise words from a few of my favorite swimmers - shut up and swim already.
No, you just take to the ethernets to whinge.
And, I've often found those who call others snooty are the mostest snootiest of all. The coolest and most laid back group of swimmers I've ever met are the hard core elite swimming crew I see at nationals. Chew you up in water but very cool on terra firma.
And, lastly, I don't have to assume my team is a shining example. It is proven 9 times a week when athletes from 18 to 80 of all levels show up and train together, and, as is uncommon in your world view of swimming, get along quite well, even shiningly.
Finally, I'd like to pass along some wise words from a few of my favorite swimmers - shut up and swim already.
I'd like to call on the moderator, Rob Copeland (or others) to step in here. The rules of the forum state :
Keep it Civil
Ad hominem or personal attacks are not allowed under any circumstances. Do not post any messages that harrass, insult (name calling), belittle, threaten or flame another member or guest. Debates are fine, but argue the point, not the person.
I'd like to call on the moderator, Rob Copeland (or others) to step in here. The rules of the forum state that there are to be no rude or insulting posts - and quite frankly, this is really out of line and destructive.
This is just banter ... good grief.
I am a competitive swimmer myself and coach masters. Like Geek, I have swimmers with a wide range of abilities and interests (competitive, fitness, OW, tris). I came in two years ago as a new coach and had a quite different style than the outgoing coach, i.e., I don't like garbage yards. My swimmers have adapted. I always try to keep their interests in mind, offer modifications, give a variety of sets working all energy systems, etc. Everyone gets equal attention; even the fitness swimmers want to improve their strokes. We all get along fabulously; there is no "snootiness" and I rather doubt that exists on any masters team. I have found most masters coaches and swimmers to be the epitome of welcoming. Denise MW seems to have a chip on her shoulder of some sort ... If some adults really "refuse" to join a masters team, I suspect it's because they want to do their own sets on their own schedule.
Bailed out by an elite swimmer, sweet! Wait, hold on, elites aren't supposed to be nice. So confusing.
Being part of a good team extends beyond your own team. If it weren't for Fort sharing her elitist expertise I wouldn't have written any decent sprint sets.
I prefer the unwritten rule of this forum, KEEP IT REAL.
