First of all, "older masters swimmers" have as much potential for improving conditioning as anyone else. If a swimmer practices breathing every 3rd or every 5th stroke, they can develop the capacity for such a breathing pattern, regardless of their age.
Second, the idea that holding on to your breath gives you extra buoyancy is inaccurate. Many beginner swimmers tend to hold on to their breath underwater constantly and it only increases their anxiety and fatigue. Holding on to the breath, instead of controlled exhalation, also makes the swimmer more tense in the water. Controlled exhalation allows them to relax and prepare to take the next breath in a more fluid manner.
This is a good drill to help vary your breathing.
Are you saying that it is possible to increase lung capacity in older masters swimmers, or that there is a capacity for masters swimmers to learn better breathing patterns? If the latter then I agree, breathing patterns can be improved hence the example I referenced when trying to reduce the number of breaths per 50. Most masters sprinters breathe too often on a 50 costing them valuable time.
My view is that lung condition can be improved through exercise, stopping smoking, etc, however capacity cannot be increased. Happy to be proven wrong though.
I'm confused by your comment that filling the lungs with air, as opposed to no or little air, would not increase buoyancy? That's basic physics, and when we are talking about a 50 free controlled exhalation isn't a consideration.
I'm just advising what has worked for me, and the sprint swimmers at our club. I've dropped from a 24.3 (SCM) to a 23.3 after 2 years of focused sprint training based on Maglischo training principles. Many others in our club have achieved similar results, following the same plan, most of us in our 40's and 50's.
Breathing for distance swimming is a different matter entirely.
Hypoxic training might just help a little, and according to Maglischo, optimal training effect as such is reached within a few weeks. He also advices that it places a demand on your body and can wear you down. I do train for several weeks awhile before meets with these sets but I still require two to three breaths for a LC 50 so I've been trying to learn how to breathe better while sprinting
are you breathing every 2 for your distance events?
Not sure if you were directing this at me Steve, but yes I breathe every 2 strokes for 100. I also take 2 breaths LC 50, the 1st at 25, and the 2nd at about 80M. I could do it in 1 but the cramping pains are too distracting. The top (younger) guys tend not to breathe at all, I wish :)
Allen, have you read the piece in Swimming Fastest by Maglischo?
i could post the text later when the book is available
Yes,but not since shortly after the book came out.I'll reread it.
Our coach advises against Hypoxic training for older masters swimmers, as its not possible to develop or even delay the diminishment of lung capacity in ageing swimmers.
That said, I train for 50 free, and my goal is to take as few breaths as possible. So in training we do the same when dive start sprinting. While it may not improve lung capacity, you get a feel for how long you can swim at top speed without a breath, prior to CO2 accumulation impacting performance. I'm down to one breath per 50 - I could finish the 50 without breathing but find I'm too focused on the pain of wanting to breathe than finishing the race strong with good form.
I also find it helps to have full lungs for a little extra buoyancy.
There's a good article on the subject here:
www.alexandriamasters.com/.../hypoxic.htm
Our coach advises against Hypoxic training for older masters swimmers, as its not possible to develop or even delay the diminishment of lung capacity in ageing swimmers.
That said, I train for 50 free, and my goal is to take as few breaths as possible. So in training we do the same when dive start sprinting. While it may not improve lung capacity, you get a feel for how long you can swim at top speed without a breath, prior to CO2 accumulation impacting performance. I'm down to one breath per 50 - I could finish the 50 without breathing but find I'm too focused on the pain of wanting to breathe than finishing the race strong with good form.
I also find it helps to have full lungs for a little extra buoyancy.
There's a good article on the subject here:
www.alexandriamasters.com/.../hypoxic.htm
First of all, "older masters swimmers" have as much potential for improving conditioning as anyone else. If a swimmer practices breathing every 3rd or every 5th stroke, they can develop the capacity for such a breathing pattern, regardless of their age.
Second, the idea that holding on to your breath gives you extra buoyancy is inaccurate. Many beginner swimmers tend to hold on to their breath underwater constantly and it only increases their anxiety and fatigue. Holding on to the breath, instead of controlled exhalation, also makes the swimmer more tense in the water. Controlled exhalation allows them to relax and prepare to take the next breath in a more fluid manner.
This is a good drill to help vary your breathing.
www.youtube.com/watch
Hypoxic training might just help a little, and according to Maglischo, optimal training effect as such is reached within a few weeks. He also advices that it places a demand on your body and can wear you down. I do train for several weeks awhile before meets with these sets but I still require two to three breaths for a LC 50 so I've been trying to learn how to breathe better while sprinting
are you breathing every 2 for your distance events?
As a distance swimmer, I can empathize with Judester. I've gotten pretty good at flip turns, and have become quite fast at them and using and maintaining the speed that they give coming off the wall, especially for shorter distances (200 or less). But for distance events, they will eventually wear me down, particularly in the 1650. The lack of oxygen caused by holding one's breath during the turn builds up over the course of a long swim and eventually causes me to slow down. Perhaps hypoxic training could be valuable in decreasing this impact?
Yes,but not since shortly after the book came out.I'll reread it.
There's a USMS article that summarises Maglischo's comments on Hypoxic trainining:
www.usaswimming.org/ViewNewsArticle.aspx
It suggests the practice does offer a benefit, in that it helps the swimmer improve their ability to resist the urge to breath (hypercapnia) due to CO2 build up, which is why we do this training during our sprint sessions. It dismisses the suggestion that Hypoxic training improves aerobic lung capacity.
Swimspire- the article you linked makes no reference to Hypoxic training increasing lung capacity, just regular swim training. It also references studies on elite athletes at their physiological peak and pre-pubertal girls, not older masters swimmers.
I'll restate my views on Hypoxic training:
- Do Hypoxic training if you want to practice breath hold for a 50 sprint (free and fly)
- Maybe do Hypoxic training if you want to practice breathing patterns for distance events - I'm not so sure about this. Is there a benefit to breathing every 5,6,7,8,9 times? Why not just every 3 - standard bi-lateral, if there are no physiological benefits to hypoxic training?
- Don't do Hypoxic training if your an older masters swimmer (what age does one's cardiovascular system fully develop/peak?) and your sole purpose is to get a big physiological adaption - you can increase lung conditioning by simply swim training without the risk and pain of breath holding.
