I signed up for the 200 fly next Sunday and am wondering if anyone has some advice on how to swim this. My twin brother told me he swam it in college, and by the last length, he felt he was actually moving backwards. I'd like to avoid that if at all possible.
To get into shape for this, I've been doing a lot of 25's fly with 10-15 seconds rest. I started doing 8 at a time and have worked my way up to 40. Yesterday, I did 20 x 25s then 10 x 50 on a minute.
Questions:
Pacing--reason would say to go out slow so you have something left for the second hundred, but I wonder if this is right. After all, you get tired either way, so maybe going out reasonably fast means you will end up with a better time (albeit a greater feeling of misery on the last length or two.) I'm not talking a sprint pace, but a reasonably fast clip. Or is this a recipe for disaster?
Stroke mechanics--does the fly need to be modified for a 200--i.e., not pulling all the way through, gliding longer, hand entry a bit wider than usual, etc. I've read that some people can swim a continuous mile butterfly, and I wonder if they are swimming the same stroke I do. It's hard to imagine...
I have only swum the 200 fly once--last year--and got a 2:30 on it. My 100 fly has improved this year (a 59.59 , the first time I've broken a minute since high school 31 years ago), and I am in better overall shape this year, so I am hoping to lower the 2:30 to at least a 2:25 (which would give me the Y age group record in our league.) Any advice from 200 flier veterans would be truly appeciated.
Thanks in advance for your words of wisdom.
Former Member
Hi Gail,
So does 'float' mean float in the sense "float like a butterfly, sting like a bee" or in the sense "I floated in the water?" I always floated the first 100 in the first sense, that is, I never push hard, and I breath smoothly, and I stretch, and at the end of the 100 I feel like I just did a warmup (I do race with lots of adrenalin). If you mean the second sense, well, how can I ever beat Dennis Baker (world record holder 40-44 200 LCM fly) if I do that? ;)
You say your 200 timing is different. Do you mean you swim a different type of butterfly, rather than your normal butterfly more slowly? When I try to swim distance fly (greater than 200 yards) I do swim a different stroke, with lots more glide, pull ends farther forward, and a lazy kick. Is that what you mean? I have been reluctant to do that stroke in a 200 because of the reason mentioned in the previous paragraph (that is, I want a fast time, not just to finish (but I am not ready to die, literally, yet (but dying while swimming beats some alternatives))).
And do you *really* mean negative split? Your second hundred was faster than your first? Perhaps we should get quantitative here. How much slower (or faster!) should the second hundred be than the first, in percentage? For example, in the race I mentioned early in the thread, my second 100 m was about 27% slower than my first (clearly not good). What do those who say they pace this race correctly accomplish?
I would suggest that Fred Schlicher (50-54) who swims in the lane to the right of me (that means faster) paces a 200 fly as well as anyone who swims it fast. When he set his USMS records for 50-54 at our NE SCY Championship he swam a 2:02.56 and split it: 27.61/59.79/1:31.62/2:02.56 (this information came from www.swimmingtimes.com a website run by NEM that has more than 600,000 swims from USA, College and Masters meets).
I think its very hard to "negative" split a 200 fly or *** and still achieve a "record" time. The momentum from the dive alone for both strokes gives you more than 1 second advantage. (I wouldn't be surprised if in breastroke the advantage is closer to 2 seconds if you have a good entry). Looking at Fred's splits by 50s you can see that after the first 50 (consider the dive momentum and adrenalin) he eased back on his second 50 and then descended his 50s 2-4. This is something that is reinforced daily by our coach Rob Berry. We don't swim a lot of yardage (average around 3,500 a session) but we do swim lots of sets that help us swim fast through smart pacing. I think that Rob also understands all too well what it takes to get masters to swim fast since he always seems to know when to put some recovery in the workout to help us get back up again and swim faster.
When I used to swim the 200 fly, as I did for many years, I paced myself so I would negative split the race. I used my 200 timing which is a lot different than the 100....and I never collasped during the last 25. You "float" the first 100, the pick up the pace, the last 50 hurts and the last 25 is a sprint. Does anyone remember the man who died at the end of the 200 fly in Florida? He was only 36! And he could hardly get his arms out of the water on the last 25, collapsing and dropping under the water at the finish. His friends were all cheering, "Come on...you can do it!". I would like to suggest that anyone doing the 200, in shape or not, modify their stroke, learn pacing and negative split this race. A word to the wise.
I wonder how common an occurance it is for someone to die at Master's meets. I hadn't heard of Mr. Margolis, but I was in Nashville at Nationals in 1991 when 76? year old Fredrick Wiggins died during a 200 IM. The early heats were going so slow that I went outside to browse among the venders booths while waiting for my heat. While outside, Mr. Wiggins arrested during his IM, rescusitation efforts ensued and EMT's took him to the hospital where he later died. All of this took place in my absence and when I strolled back into the pool area where the meet had been restarted from where it halted, I remarked to some lady "is this all the farther they are?" She certainly must have thought I was the most insensitive SOB she'd ever come across.
Anyway, earlier this year a friend of mine nearly died at the Chicago Marathon and because of this I recently had all of my labwork and EKG checked for the first time in 25 years.
USMS recommends we all be checked out before engaging in strenuous activity and I at least have the peace of mind that my cholesterol, HDL's, LDL's triglycerides and EKG are as good as can be expected.
If something should happen to me, it won't be because I was too stubborn and stupid to find out if there was an obvious problem first. So get checked out people. I like master's swimmers, but I don't want to do mouth to mouth on any of you. Especially after a 200 butterfly!
Greg;you will never have to mouth-to-mouth me after a 200 fly. Did my last one ever at Santa Clara. There was another fatality at the Worlds in Montreal, Canada in 1994- a great backstroker ( in my age-group !!!) from T.O.C. named James Bohan (sp. ??) had a coronary during his event. Very sad, but if I have to go, that's as good as it gets.............. No-one ever REALLY negative splits a 200 fly-you just try to come close: eg: 1:06 & 1:10 = 1:16 and a real good swim. My licence plate reads "100 fly" and there is a reason for that. I'm too puny to go a great 50 and way too smart to swim a 200 again. There are no other strokes and so I'm stuck with the 100 !!!! ;)
All of you can improve your 200 fly time by not swimming as far. When I swim a 200 *** (25 yds) I swim less than 80 yards, the 200 fly I try to swim less than 100 yards total. For me the start is worth 3 seconds, then I go deep, dolphin kick 3-5 times, then let buoancy get me to the surface. It has been a while since I have done a good 200 fly, but I always call the 200 fly and *** a start and seven turns.
By working on your streamline most people can improve one to two yards, in the same time or less, with no extra effort. For most flyers they have to work on getting their muscles in a good modern streamline, like breaststrokers flyers usually are well muscled. Using Marty Hulls ROM strap allows even well muscled swimmers to get into a great streamline. Try it, I am the most inflexible swimmer out there, but I go 13 to 14 yards off each turn.
Just a thought.
Wayne McCauley
The 200 is such an incredibly different "animal" relative to all the other distances, the fly version seems to demonstrate this more than any other stroke. If you look at the best 200 flyers they are usually not as strong in the 100, rather they are exceptional in the 400IM, 500 free, etc. (like Tom Dolan). Training for this event requires a substanial amount of fly time in practice and a different/more efficient stroke.
Wayne, your onto something when you talk about the under water kick. Some of the elite 200 flyers in the world will hit 9-11 kicks underwater in this event and will "build" throughout the whole race. Us guys/gals who are stronger in the 100 typically can't find the rhythm/pace in this event and in my case avoid it . One other observation, it seems that quite a few successful swimmers breath every stroke or use a 2/1 pattern (two breathes/1 down).
It has occurred to me that the 200 fly has something in common with a weight lifting set--the first couple repetitions are relatively easy, but as your muscles get progressively more fatigued, it becomes harder and harder to keep going. The last few strokes in the race are analogous to the final lift in the set--you are on the verge (assuming you haven't crossed over entirely) of muscle failure.
Something physiological must be taking place here, but the exact nature of which I have no idea. Are there any knowledgable exercise physiologists out there? If so, can you explain what precisely is happening on the final several strokes of the race, where it becomes almost impossible (at least for the likes of me) to get your arms out of the water?
Is it the case that lactic acid has built up so high that this has begun impeding the muscle fibers' ability to contract?
Or have the muscle fibers exhausted all immediately available fuel and/or oxygen?
Or is something else entirely the cause?
Whatever is going on, is there anyway (short of going slower early in the race, streamlining, etc.) to prepare your body for this moment of muscle failure--that is to say, to delay it?
What I have noticed with the great 200 flyers is they kick both down and up, and they never go vertical. Now is the even kick the reason they do not go vertical, I don't know. Also they actually train for the 200 fly, they get lots of lactic acid sets in, so they are prepared for the PAIN of that last 50.
Like Tall "Eagle Eyes" Paul stated, the 200 flyer is not the fastest at 50 or 100 fly, definitely the great 200 flyers are a different breed. They think different from the rest of us. They really believe they are animals, just ask them.
Our team had a younger swimmer go out in 50.6 seconds for the first 100 of a 200 fly a couple of years ago. He wanted to swim faster than the winner of the 100 fly race, which he missed swimming. He came back something like 1:08, but man there must have been a LOT OF PAIN that last 100!
There's only one way to swim the 200 fly....very carefully. To reply to Phil, you take it out strong.... but controlled. If you have trained correctly, you should know how to pace those 4 or 8 lengths. The first part of the race should feel light, airy, "floating" on top of the water. Float like a butterfly. You should be relaxed, getting a good rhythm and good timing. I have set many world and national records in all three fly distances and have used a different timing for each one. The 200 is totally different from the 100, it is mostly arms and body movement, useing your legs more on the last 50. I always double breathed, something I can't do anymore at my age. The 100 is also double breathing with a faster turnover, more body movement and kick. Working the dive, turns and streamline are extremely important.
I have a theory for the 50. You can't turn over any faster than you can kick twice, so I use one kick in the 50, turning over faster with one breath on the first 25, one at the turn and one coming back. This worked for me....my 50 flyworld record stood for 16 years.
As for training for the 200, 3 months out do 3xbroken 200s once or twice a week to get the feel of descending, 2 months out 2x200 broken and one month out 1x200. This one broken 200 should be perfect and focused on decending the pace by 1 second. You only get one chance in the meet so you should learn to do it once, perfect, in practice. Also, you will need to do this on your own as you will not be able to do this in a masters workout. Hope this helps.....
