Darian Townsend entered a masters meet in Mesa over the weekend and broke five world records in the 25-29 age group. This was Townsend's first masters meet. For those of you who are not familiar with him, Townend is a three-time Olympian and gold medalist from South Africa.
Swimswam.com posted a story about Townend's incredible meet. Here's the link: swimswam.com/.../
I found the comments quite interesting especially this one by "HMMM":
I have no problem with athletes making money off of Masters but why have a separate division called Masters if there are no rules or restrictions? None of the sponsored people you mention in their 50′s are training for Rio are they?. Most people in Masters believe they are swimming against recreational swimmers which is why there is a separate Masters division and those records are set by recreational/retired swimmers. If Phelps remains retired and wants to swim Masters, well there goes a few records in his age group but none of us in our club would have a problem with it. We discussed that very subject this morning after practice and Phelps, like Rowdy Gaines is retired and would welcome him. Many of us have swam against and met Rowdy and it is a true honor to share the pool with him in a Masters meet. But our entire team would have a huge problem if Lochte decides to swim a Masters meet while he is still fully training for the Olympics and blows all the records out of the water. If Lochte swims 12 events, he is going to walk away with 12 records. Why have a separate record book? If he can do that, you might as well just call us all USA swimmers and do away with the Masters division. There are meets where fully training pros swim and they are called Grand Prix’s, Nationals, and Worlds. Call us old fashioned, call us Masters swimmers, but we all think Masters should be separate from the training pros..
So I'm curious what the rest of you think. Should someone like Darian Townend or Ryan Lochte be allowed to swim in masters meets when they are professional swimmers who are training full-time? And maybe "allowed" is a poor choice or word. The bottom line is do you think they have any business swimming masters meets?
Former Member
I think it's fantastic. What a neat opportunity to line up next to the best. I'd be on the lookout for any regional Master's meet where I had that opportunity to do so. The excitement surrounding a swimmer of that level would be so exciting for me. My general rule of thumb is no more than 8 hours in the car for a meet b/c that's all my back can take and still be 'swimmable' that day. I'd be inclined to jump a regional flight to hit up a meet with an Olympic hopeful on the blocks.
There are two guys on my Masters squad who specifically target low volume/low competition meets so they don't have to find out how good they really aren't. Their desire to have a high finish is so important they selectively choose the weakest fields to ensure the best chance. When the big meets come around it's 'oh I'm really busy that week' or 'my shoulder has been bothering me'. The excuse machine is so reliable it makes the Navy Master Clock look clunky. I'm looking forward to bringing this up to them at practice tonight to get their take.
since FINA *IS* the governing body of all things aquatic and usms is a member of fina. if you are not, then you dont. period. if you go faster than an existing WR and its not sanctioned by usms or fina...then it dont count!
I know the rules
Meet has to be sanctioned
Swimmer has to registered
just saying there's been some pretty excellent swims by swimmers of masters eligible ages that didn't count and weren't recognized.
Alright. I'll be the jerk.
In triathlon, there are professional and age group categories. AGers aren't eligible for prize money and pros can't claim AG prizes or qualify for world champs in the softer AG category. Pro isn't bounded by age. Many pros renounce their pro status, wait a nominal cooling off period (I think there's one) and race as age groupers.
I think this system makes a lot of sense. Obviously the abuses of amateurism were rampant through the last century but I think masters is implicitly an amateur activity and it's worth preserving at least a nominal division between the two. And Rowdy Gaines etc would still be welcome in masters after their pro careers.
Why would it be invalid for them to have records at 25-29 but perfectly ok at 45-49? Don't we want our records to reflect the fastest swimmers in those events?
Agreed.
I think that Kirk's original post is referring to 'elites' who are very much still part of today's world competitions. And that's where the question of fairness came in. At the end of the day a record is a record regardless of age group. It would be crazy to put an asterisk next to every Olympian's result when they set a new masters standard.
Besides, by the time any elite athlete moves on in life, gets married, has kids, job pressures, a house mortgage etc...let's just say that the playing field is a bit more level.
Brian Goodell is a perfect example of an Olympic distance star who truly humbled himself when returning to masters. Guys in his age group are pretty amazing.
I get that USAS focuses on age group swimming which I support and USMS focuses on masters swimming which i also support, but why the two separate bodies. I was amazed when I just joined USAS that I could not use my USMS times for meet entry.
You can custom enter times in the meets, rather than being entered at "NT". You just have to let the coach know the times, and he/she has to make the extra effort to input the entry times manually. But for the most part, they have 50-100 or more swimmers to enter, and it's hard enough just doing that. I was lucky that my coach did that, because otherwise I would've been entered with my FORMER USAS times from when I was 23 years old that were in the database already. They were actually too fast for me now and I'd be seeded in the wrong spot and bringing up the rear of the heat all the time. :)
I swam at the Mesa meet. When they announced Darian Townsend, I had no idea who he was, not realizing that he swam
for S.A. But watching him swim, it was like watching a killer whale let loose in the pool. All in all, pretty exciting, although some
of the other swimmers in his events looked a little shocked. If you are used to winning in his age group and he happens to
show up, it's just the luck of the draw.
My first petition is to declare knelson and pwb unreal masters swimmers so I can move up on the Top Ten rankings annually.I'll second this. Or at least make them wear board shorts for competition swims... and they have to wear a cap like this. Might as well throw Stewart in the elite category also. He's way too fast.
A few years ago, Freddy Bousquet dropped by an Auburn Masters meet and swam a 18.7 50 free. That was pretty cool to watch. I didn't see a downside to him being there. Maybe someone in the 25-29 age group was annoyed? Being a big swimming school, the Auburn meet occasionally draws and elite swimmer for whatever reason. Unfortunately, they usually scratch their events. I wish more would show up and swim.
I swam next to Bousquet when he went that 18.7! Everyone in the aquatic center went ballistic. (For his swim, not mine, just to be clear). How cool is that? I actually wish I had stepped down from the blocks to watch the race. I've never seen anyone go that fast in person. :)
So, to get your rankings you want to exclude the only people that can beat you? It would seem that if you are so great as to lack meaningful competition you would actually want competition. It is called a competition right?
I'm still waiting for you to tell me how you draw you rmotivation. And I am not that great that I never have competition. Just look at the rankings and results and you can see that there is competition, but most of it is on the other side of the country for me. So if you swim Nationals, you might be lucky to swim next to them. The rest of the year you don't see your competition. That's when rankings and TT come in.
I know dozens if not a few hundred full time non swimming professionals who spend all weekend at meets. They are called volunteer officials and parent volunteers. Heck, I know three volunteers meet directors who put on a Grand Prix meet annually.
For every Masters swimmer there is a different reason for why they swim.
Still waiting on you to tell us your reasons. All you have done so far in this Thread is shoot against other people's opinions.
