New FINA rules

Yes, and that's why USMS created the unattached club (I presumeA primary reason for USMS passage of the rules for unattached swimmers is so USMS sanctioned events can comply with FINA MSW 5.3 “World Records can only be established in a Masters meet: … d. in which only swimmers registered in a club member of a FINA Member Federation participated.” And “APPENDIX 1 Ruling for Masters Top Ten tabulations. Results that are valid for the FINA Masters Top Ten results can only be established in a Masters meet: ... d) in which only swimmers registered in a club member of a FINA Member Federation participated. From www.fina.org/.../ma_rules_20132017new2.pdf

Yes, and that's why USMS created the unattached club (I presume). It gives the option for swimmers to be members of USMS (and their LMSC) while not being a member of a club--unless you think "club unattached" is really a club. ;) Agree! I wonder if someone could post the new USMS language around this? If it says that Unat members of USMS are now deemed to be "registered in a club member of a FINA Member Federation", and does so without caveat, then it would seem to apply in any situation where one is required to be "registered in a club member of a FINA Member Federation"... whether that is for top ten or for entry into Worlds.

I have to admit I'm still confused... so wouldn't someone in USMS "club unat" be representing USMS (USMS being the member federation)? I thought that's basically what the new USMS rule says? Much as we would like to think, USMS is not the center of the world, nor does it dictate rules to FINA. The Club Unat in USMS is only for use in our own meets, in order to satisfy the FINA rule, which is global. If anyone enters a world Masters meet, they have to abide by the local and FINA rules. So does this mean you will not be going to Worlds in Montreal? Okay, now we are bleeding over from another thread altogether, which only deals with short course yards meets. In May.

201.3.4 An unattached swimmer is an individual member who is registered with the club Unattached through an LMSC. Swimmers registered with the club Unattached shall not compete in relays or score club points in competition. Competing while registered with the club Unattached shall not be considered as representing a club for purposes of 201.3.5. Excellent - thanks for posting. So it basically says that someone swimming Unat within an LMSC is now a 'club' member in the eyes of USMS (except that it won't prohibit a swimmer from registering with 'real' club a la 201.3.5) and it says this in a very non-specific and broad way. Now, does anyone have the entry language for Worlds that requires a swimmer to be attached to club in order to register? I love logic puzzles like this...

i have asked Kathy to post it.

This sounds like an Abbott and Costello sketch. I thought you said you were on a club? Yes, I'm unattached. How can you be on a club and be unattached? I'm on club Unattached, obviously!

I wonder if someone could post the new USMS language around this? 201.3.4 An unattached swimmer is an individual member who is registered with the club Unattached through an LMSC. Swimmers registered with the club Unattached shall not compete in relays or score club points in competition. Competing while registered with the club Unattached shall not be considered as representing a club for purposes of 201.3.5. Rationale: Conform to and make effective the date that FINA proposed change MSW 6.2 becomeseffective, should it pass the FINA Congress in July. To clarify that all current rules regarding unattachedwill continue to function as previously interpreted.

Excellent - thanks for posting. So it basically says that someone swimming Unat within an LMSC is now a 'club' member in the eyes of USMS ... Actually, no. What this does is make FINA think you are on a club when swimming at home meets. USMS still knows you are unattached. Read the last sentence again.

Actually, no. What this does is make FINA think you are on a club when swimming at home meets. USMS still knows you are unattached. Read the last sentence again. knelson... :) Ha! A&C is right... now back to the fun and games "Competing while registered with the club Unattached shall not be considered as representing a club for purposes of 201.3.5." you mean that sentence? All that does is refer to 201.3.5 which says "A swimmer shall not represent any club in competition for 60 consecutive days before transferring affiliation to another club, unless this transfer takes place at the time of annual registration. A swimmer may declare unattached status at any time without written application." So according to this, the only purpose for which "club Unat" is not considered a club is for purposes of allowing a swimmer to not wait the 60 days before transferring to another club. Which makes sense because since club unat is a 'real' club, no one would ever be able to switch in mid-year according to 201.3.5. Sorry.... this actually strengthens the argument that club unat is a 'real' club, or the exception would not have to exist. Now, if you agree with that logic, please help me understand how USMS 'fooled' FINA into thinking that Unat folks are swimming on a club "when swimming at home meets" (the phrase in quotes, BTW, does not appear to be specified anywhere) and not why it would 'fool' FINA for other purposes where club membership would be required.

Since you seem more interested in proving your point than understanding the rule, please go right ahead and enter Worlds using Club Unattached. I believe that FINA has been apprised of our solution to the rule and are satisfied with it.