Major 1650 sandbagging by a forum member

Rumor has it there will be a split request at the 200, followed by splits sufficient to just dip under the 20 minute mark so that this individual is not too tired for the cool event of the day, 400 IM. So the goal of the nationals rule seems to be having a "realistic seed time" (the "recorded time in the past two years" part just serves as a flag to identify potential violators). The goal is proper seeding to manage the meet timeline. So it doesn't seem obvious to me that someone doing a split request who puts in a good-faith estimate of the overall time for the swim even qualifies as "sandbagging" by this definition. It's a bit of a gray area, ethically. Doing the event as a split request (instead of straight up) arguably lengthens the meet -- however slightly -- for everyone. But split requests are certainly allowed under the rules. (I remember college dual meets where a coach would put a person in the 1000 and 200 free, which were back-to-back and would put in a ringer in the 1000 and instruct him to go easy to provide the 1000/200 swimmer with extra rest time.) Anyway, back to the 1650/400 IM: if this hypothetical someone had just sucked it up and did the double straight up, this whole question would not have arisen. :bolt:

I wasn't using the word "you" specifically to refer to you personally. Sorry, I didn't write that very well. I find it tiresome that people harp on split requests on bogus "ethical" grounds. Constant theme over the years on this forum ... Kirk's point is exactly right --- let people swim and get times. That's what we're going to meets for. I sympathize with Gull's point to a degree, but race conditions are rarely perfect. I have only used one split request (100 free split in 200 free last Dec.) other than relay leadoffs in over a year, so I have nothing particularly to be defensive about. I just don't like the moralizing. I'm relatively new and had not seen this point come up for discussion before. I've been to 8 Masters meets in my life. I don't know if anybody did split requests in any of my heats and I don't care. I just think it is interesting to discuss. For example if getting a time is the only objective, why have meets? Just develop a way for USMS way to sanction time trials in your own pool and save the money of going to meets.

Lest we think split requests and sandbagging is just about us vain Masters' swimmers, don't forget Ricky Berens' American Record 200 free done earlier this year as a split request as part of the 500 free -- swimswam.com/.../. If memory serves me right, he had to get out of Austin to get to Vegas for Grevers' bachelor party. (Kurt, I think your grandma's party was a much better reason) Split requests are legal and here to stay. Get over it.

As long as such a hypothetical individual does not finish last in his/her heat, it is better for the meet to enter a slower heat than do a split in a faster heat, slowly complete the rest of the swim and delay the following heat. Not necessarily. If you enter an artificially slow time, it's likely that someone who did belong in the heat you entered got bumped into a faster heat. This wouldn't be much of an issue in shorter events, but for a 1650, that person might be well behind the rest of the heat.

Split requests are legal and here to stay. Get over it.Whom are you guys arguing with? I'm looking at this thread and I don't see anyone speaking out against split requests.

However, I'll pose anther question: Aren't doing split requests fundamentally unethical and ego centric; doing your own special event that suits your convenience in the beginning of completely different event for everyone else in the heat?:worms: Absolutely ridiculous. I just had a friend do a split request next to me in the 100 fly last weekend. She set a national record doing so. I was thrilled for her and wasn't bothered one iota by it. If you get annoyed by someone putting in a split request, you "fundamentally" need to get a life, stop sweating the small stuff and learn how to swim your own race. Split requests give swimmers more chances to get times, which is a positive thing.

I remember college dual meets where a coach would put a person in the 1000 and 200 free, which were back-to-back and would put in a ringer in the 1000 and instruct him to go easy to provide the 1000/200 swimmer with extra rest time. I remember doing this exact thing in college once. I was the swimmer in the 1000 Free/200 Free back to back. My coach knew I could easily win the 1000, but I was instructed to swim just fast enough to beat all the opposing team's swimmers (about a 10:20), then I had to step up to the 200 Free to race my former H.S. teammate in the 200 Free and beat him. We both went under 1:45s then if I remember right. That was back when our college meets used hardwritten cards for our lane assignments. After the 1000, my h.s. buddy congratulated me on a "lazy swim", and I just laughed it off with him. Then my coach came up to the end of my lane with my card for the 200 Free. "Wait...he's doing the 200 Free also?!?!??" was his response. The look on his face changed dramatically too. :)

I've done a few split requests, and when I'm doing a split request that will make the swim seem "abnormal" to my lane neighbors, I always inform them ahead of time what I'm doing so they don't freak out. For a 1000 split of a 1650 (or 400 & 800 of a 1500), no big deal, you're basically going the same pace anyway. I've done a 200 split of a 400 SCM Free, and informed my neighbors of that one. Also a 100 Fly split in a 400 IM the same way.

Don't forget water boarding.

I prefer to swim in heats with other swimmers who have enter legitimate seed times . Craig, What is a "legitimate seed time"? Isn't it the time you expect to complete the race in under the circumstances? I recently swam a decathlon meet where I swam 10 events and there were only about 60 competitors. I put in "legitimate" seed times that were much slower than I could have swum any of the 10 events fully rested. The same goes for split requests. As long as you put in a time that you realistically think will be your final time, that is legitimate. I think split requests are fine and can be used for all kinds of good reasons. The fist time I saw someone doing this was Paul Smith at a nationals in Ft. Lauderdale. He was swimming the 1,000 free and I watched hime take it out in 46, then stop and cruise the rest of the race. When I asked him why he did it, he said that the 100 free was on the last day of the meet and he had to leave before then. That totally made sense to me. I've done it a fair number of times at local meets, mostly when I knew I couldn't do two events back to back and hope to perform well. It was a benefit to me and the race organizers who would not have had that extra entry fee otherwise. I do think it is essential that you let the meet referee and your adjacent competitors know what you're about to do.