Seeding - Seed Time vs Actual Time

I guess another corollary to this is why does USMS seed distance events slow-to-fast? All the USA Swimming meets I go to seed them fast-to-slow. If the events were seeded like this I bet the sandbagging problem would be greatly reduced.

There will most likely be someone who swims considerably faster than their seed time at any meet, either by choice or not. It doesn't bother me, even if I know that the person next to me will finish 5 sec faster than me in a 100. Only way to prevent it would be to swim heats and finals, but that would make a three day meet drag on for two weeks! Agree with others: worry about your own race.

I guess another corollary to this is why does USMS seed distance events slow-to-fast? All the USA Swimming meets I go to seed them fast-to-slow. If the events were seeded like this I bet the sandbagging problem would be greatly reduced. There was a time at Nationals when some distance events were seeded fast to slow (regardless of age). And some "fast" swimmers would put down a slow seed time so they could have the benefit of seeing what the fastest people did in their age group so they would know what it took to win before they dove in. At a local meet we seeded the 800 free fast to slow as the last event of the meet. Some swimmers put down faster times just so they could try to be in the first heat so they didn't have to wait around. It's impossible to please everybody and have a perfect system unless we automatically used seed times for all based on times in a database. But of course that isn't practical in masters plus what do you do if you haven't done that event before. All we can do is ask people to follow the definition in the rule book for seed times: "...(times) having been previously achieved or reasonably estimated". But some adults will choose not to follow that either so what can you do? Can't shoot em so might as well accept their entry fees. :D

Yes, I suppose if you went to the database you'd end up having lots of swimmers seeded with NT and would that actually be better than just having everyone enter whatever time they feel like entering? Probably not. In the grand scheme of things it's not a big deal. I realize if I want to swim a distance event there's probably going to be some waiting involved.

I guess another corollary to this is why does USMS seed distance events slow-to-fast? All the USA Swimming meets I go to seed them fast-to-slow. If the events were seeded like this I bet the sandbagging problem would be greatly reduced. The three SC state meets all seed events > 400 fast to slow. There is no way to make everyone happy with this one. I think that MOST people enter with times they think they will be able to hit in regards to their recent training. For my meet last weekend I entered with the times I did last year at the same meet. Some of them weren't my fastest but they were close. There will always be sandbaggers.

How do you folks feel about persons who misrepresent him/her self in this manner? These are from Heat 1 for each event recent swim meet. 1500 Free SCM Seed Time - Time 45:00.00 - 25:50.75 40:00.00 - 26:08.92 45:00.00 - 29:57.58 45:00.00 - 20:52.58 400 Free SCM Seed Time - Time 15:00.00 - 7:26.23 800 Free SCM Seed Time - Time 21:00.00 - 13:53.86 20:25.00 - 16:42.46 I'm fine with it. I don't care one iota. Let swimmers do what they want. Sometimes beginners don't know what their times are. Sometimes I enter back to back events at small meets with slow times or no times to get more rest before my next event. I did that this weekend in the 200 IM, I entered NT no time because the 50 fly was next. I was done with my race before one swimmer in my heat finished the 50 fly. I had time for a 300 swim down. I got 15 minutes rest before the 50 fly instead of 5. Sometimes distance events are seeded slowest to fastest, faster swimmers might not want to wait for the 45 minute to one hour milers to finish their race. Sometimes swimmers are trying to catch flights at away meets by trying to swim in an earlier heat of the last event. I know there are some sticklers who get all bent out of shape over this and call it sand bagging, so what. Let swimmers do what is in their best interest to maximize their performance and fit their schedule and needs. A lane is a lane. Who cares?

The meets here are small enough that it seems times don't really matter At small meets it probably doesn't matter, other than the annoyance of other swimmers. At big meets it can make an already long running meet run even longer, as it pushes slower swimmers into heats which would otherwise run faster, and the sandbagger does nothing to speed up the slower heats. In Illinois, for distance events entered at the state meet we will be instituting a requirement for a defensible seed time which occurred within the past two years. That can be an actual meet time, a time trial, a meters-to-yards conversion, or a split time from a longer distance swim. I think this policy will go into effect at the 2013 state meet.

How do you folks feel about persons who misrepresent him/her self in this manner? MEH.

I'm going to seed this thread at 7.99 pages.

I also submitted times that were unrealistic. After not being in a swim meet for 35 years and having no times in anything (especially LC meters), I submitted times that I thought I could swim. When I stood on the blocks and looked around, my initial thoughts were, "What am I doing in this heat?" Needless to say, my delusions of grandeur did not pan out.