How do I achieve the 1k in 15 min? How to prepare for 4k OW?

Former Member
Former Member
Hey experienced swimmers, really need your help; 40 year old dude here who only recently returned to swimming. Currently swim 100m in 1minute 21, 1k in under 17 minutes and 2k in about 34 minutes in a 25m pool without pushing myself too hard... Goal is 1k in 15 min in the shortish term - and I want to do a 4k OW swim in 11 months' time. Major restrictions: No Masters, squads, coaching or even lane ropes where I live at the moment (Bavarian village), and only can train 2-3 times a week for about 1.5 hrs in a 25m pool (though there is a 50m one outdoors in summer.) Have kickboard and paddles for drills but nothing else. Thanks in advance - all and any advice on training, plans, tools, drills and even nutrition appreciated!
  • Former Member
    Former Member
    Any hints on improving my technique without a coach or trainer? Thanks again, really appreciate all the advice. I beleive there are some DVD's on swim technique. Total immersion and other programs. That might actually work.
  • Former Member
    Former Member
    you can do an advanced edit on your headline and correct it Fixed it! Thanks 1k in 15 minutes is holding 1:30 What kind of suit did you wear when you did it? Did you shave? I swam 1k in 16mins40something in an outdoor 50m pool (all the other times in the 25m indoor) and wearing just normal speedo bathers (aka "budgie smugglers" in Australia) I am not shaved on the body but my hair on the head is extremely short (and balding) :D how come you can only train 2 or 3 times per week I suggest that you increase your times per week to 3, 4, 5, or 6 times per week Suffice it to say I commute for 3+ hrs a day, work about 8-9 and have four young kids (and a wife!) at home. That said, I agree and if at all possible, I will up the ante. you want to improve the paces you can hold and how far you go in each practice how far do you average in practice now? what sort of paces do you hold on sets? you want to hit many different systems and mix up your training with sets do speed work do short rest sets 100's with 5 or 10 sec rest do long straight swims do test swims for 100, 200, 400, 800, 1000, 1500, 2000, 2500, 3000 & 4000 do a hard 50, 100, 200, 400, & 800 for time each weekYes - I have not timed my paces any more tbh but will do so. IMPROVE YOUR TECHNIQUE, correct any technique flaws Improve your kick Any hints on improving my technique without a coach or trainer? Thanks again, really appreciate all the advice.
  • Former Member
    Former Member
    There are various angles to answer your question, on of them is to first see if you have enough pure speed... Look at the following web page, choose the 2nd calculation method, input 15 flat for 1000m, it tells you how fast your 100m should be (sprint). www.arhy.org/swim-predict In this case, it tells you that your best 100m has to be at least 1:17, given an aerobic/anaerobic balance of 1.07 which is fairly flat (ie, calls for a good threshold development program). At 1:21 as your best possible effort over 100m, you are still short of pure speed. It seems that 16 flat would call for 1:22, again given an excellent aerobic development program. I'm assuming 16:45 (since you're being vague about your PB over a kilo). If it's the case, then it gives you an aerobic/anaerobic balance of 1.29, which is very steep (more that of a sprinter), which indicates either of these two things: 1. Your aerobic development program has lots of room for improvement 2. Your technique is somewhat quite flawed, thus preventing you from maintaining proper swim form, which translates into bad economy An SDI (aerobic anaerobic balance) of 1.29 (based on a 100m in 1:21 and a kilo in 16:45) indicates that you'd need 46sec flat over 100m in order to expect 15min over a kilo. So something is seriously wrong, probably once again at the technical level. So. I guess that all this would confirm that in your case, the balanced approach remains (and by far), your best path to success. You don't have enough speed, you may have a flawed stroke, and you haven't demonstrated that your aerobic development program is bullet proof. ** edit ** Your kilo is probably well below 17. I ran other calculations using 34m for 2k, and your SDI comes back in 1.07. If this data is real (accuracy is important here), then your aerobic anaerobic balance is already ideal, which means that by keeping the same coefficient, you'd only need to lower the 100m in 1:17 (go down to 1:15 for more safety ;-) in order to take this kilo down to 15. As simple as that. First off, thank you kindly coach. This is fantastic. Secondly, my priority clearly is that I need to get proper timing sorted (using my Casio wrist watch through foggy goggles) and get the real PB on these distances, then establish my SDI, check technique and optimize a training plan. FWIW: Today as part of the swim I tried to do 10x100 at 1:30 and two things became clear: I could NOT maintain the pace and ended up doing 5x100 at 1:45 only (though did almost 3k in training overall); I never swam more than 1:30 but just needed more breathers; my first 100m I did not really sprint but still came in just under 1:20; sincerely think I could perhaps hit 1:17 if I went all out. In summary, I think you are probably spot on: aerobic fitness and technique have lots of room for development/improvement.
  • Former Member
    Former Member
    You ARE busy. Still if you can find a way to swim 3 1 - 1.5 hour practices per week and 1, 2 or 3 short practices, you'll be better off and likely to improve faster. It's also something you can do in spurts or as your goal approaches. The more you swim each week the more likely you are to reach your goal. Just a little 15 or 30 minute work out is better than nothing get in, warm up, do a few hard fast swims then leave. like 500 easy, then 12 x 50 odds FAST on :40 evens easy on 1:20 Watch youtubes and copy the technique of great swimmers Have a friend film you swimming, put it on youtube and ask folks to comment. Read Swim Faster Faster and Apply ideas from it ASK ANDE offers many ideas Here's my old blog with many workouts Excellent suggestions. Especially the YouTube one. Will try and get that uploaded asap. And the quicker workouts: Spot on. I may be able to fit these into my lunch break once or twice a week and that would be the answer. Thanks again!
  • Former Member
    Former Member
    I think you understood the SDI concept very well. And it's bullet proof stuff, you can rely on that. Regularly, input new times and see how your SDI reacts. The ideal SDI for a Triathlete, especially a long distance specialist, clearly, is 1.06. So whenever you perform the caculations and it results into an SDI steeper than 1.1, you clearly need to flatten it, by working on long distance stuff. Likewise, if your SDI comes back in 1.04, or 1.05, like I sometimes see, then it means that you lack pure speed. For those curious enough to wonder what's under the hood, simple: SDI = Log(T1/D1) / Log(T2/D2) Where T = time and D = distance. 1 = first event and 2 = second event. As simple as that. Was created in the 80s by a very smart mathematician, Jean-Marie De Koninck, Ph.D, expert in statistics, analyst for french tv in most Olympic games. His concept was tested with his own swimmers (as he was also the founder of one of the most successful elite squad in Quebec) as well as against world wide results database. So far, the SDI remains the best fit to come up with an individual fatigue decay, in fact SDI stands for Sprint-Distance Index. It is head to head with the Critical Swim Speed concept as for issuing predictions over longer distances, but definitely has a serious edge over the CSS for predicting shorter distances, from 50 to 800m.
  • Former Member
    Former Member
    Have a friend film you swimming, put it on youtube and ask folks to comment. Hi again. I have finally uploaded a video clip of me swimming here: http://youtu.be/iXQyLdR2eYg Appreciate any constructive feedback! NOTE: I apologize for the crappy iPhone quality - I had to ask one of my kids to do it, and I am just glad he did not drop the phone into the pool! :D Will upload better quality when I get the chance. If you can put up with watching the whole 2 minutes you should see all aspects of my stroke I reckon.