In my most recent blog entry, "One Man's Garbage..." forums.usms.org/blog.php , I asked my fellow swimmers their respective opinions on the impact long, slow, continuous swimming has on meet performance.
The expression "garbage yards" (and the pejorative overtones such a phrase conjurs) has become so embedded in the forum lexicon that many, I suspect, now consider as indisputable truth swimming this way is a waste of time for anyone with competitive ambitions.
Such a view appears particularly well-entrenched among the many non-credentialed exercise physiology pontificators here on the forums who also have a fondness for sprinting and dry land exercise.
But is the concept of garbage yards truly valid--or a kind of urban legend made up largely by sprinters who would rather be doing something other than spending 90 minutes without stopping in the pool?
I don't mean only practicing this way. But if you are, like me, inclined to enjoy swimming, once or twice a week, long, slow, relatively relaxing, continuous yards, do you believe (and more importantly, perhaps, have any evidence to bolster said belief) that so-called "garbage yards" can have some value for actual racing?
Or do these only teach your body to swim slow?
I invite you to read my recent blog forums.usms.org/blog.php and post your thoughts advice there or here.
At the risk of provoking censure by the forum authorities, I furthermore ask you to leave all civility by the wayside.
Feel free to trash talk and smack upside the head of any and every one who disagrees with your personal bias here!
It's been way too long since these forums have had a good, old-fashioned range war of opinions run amuk and ad hominem attacks!
Go at each other tooth and claw. It will only stir the blood of us all, I say--something we garbage yard enthusiasts probably need a bit more of, I will admit.
Back on topic: gotta throw the sprinters a bone.
www.drmirkin.com/.../ezine112909.html
"You cannot gain maximum endurance just with continuous exercise...All competitive athletes should do some sort of 30-second interval ...A sound endurance program should include a lot of slow miles, one or two workouts with many short intervals, and probably at least one workout that includes a few long intervals each week."
So Dr. Mirkin, who is not, I should add parenthetically, the inventor of the eponymous product, is suggesting that you can't build endurance by garbage yards alone, but that they are, indeed, a part of the process?
Disgusted by my practice speeds, mid-season meet times, and hour swim performance, I decided to ramp up the weekly yardage to see if this would help me swim faster.
As of last night's practice, I am up to 78.04 miles for 2012. Because of a detached retina, I was at about 45 miles for the same 6 and 1/2 week time period in 2011.
My yards basically fall into several categories:
Official "distance" day practice, which includes 100s, 200s, and 500s on intervals tight enough that I barely make them with 5 seconds per 100 rest (or less)--for instance, 200s on 2:30 or 100s on 1:20.
Official stroke day practice, where I swim mostly freestyle but try to use the extra rest to push myself below my AT times.
Official "sprint" practice, which includes a reasonable amount of AFAP type sets either on long intervals or where active rest is part of the mix.
This leaves the off days where there is no official practice for the Sewickley Y Sea Dragons, Geriatric Division. It is at these 4 other days of the week where I allow myself to indulge in garbage yards, at least on occasion.
So far in Feb., I have managed to swim every day, though my shoulder is starting to pay a bit of a price for this. During my solo swims, I tend to do the following:
Long garbagy warm ups.
Sometimes, an hour to an hour and a half continuous swim, trying to not worry too much about what the clock says but work on keeping a smooth efficient stroke.
Sometimes, I add kicking, which is the worst aspect of my swimming and in most need of improvement.
Sometimes I will add some quasi-quality sets to the mix, too. For example, the other day I did the following garbage modification:
5 x 150 on 2:20
5 x 50 kick on 1:00
repeat the above for a total of 5 sets, decreasing the interval by 5 secs on the 150s and increasing by 5 secs the 50s
This meant that the last set of 150s were at a 1:20 per hundred pace, and the last set of the 50s kick were on 1:20, so I sprinted the second 25s as hard as I could
slow 300
14 x 50 on :55 cool down
-----------------
I guess the basic question that is emerging at this point is this: if you do, say, 1 or--at the most--2 pure slow distance swims per week, but you do this against a background of other practices of reasonably high and challenging quality, will the garbage yards help at all? Or would you be better off just resting those days?
I suppose time will tell. As of now, I am betting they will help me. But who knows?
I do feel I am creeping slowly but surely in a positive endurance direction. On the other hand, a tweaked shoulder and general feeling of being run down argues that maybe I am deluding myself.
More as the data filters in...
When I do have the luxury of pushing that hard (and most likely napping a couple of hours after the workout)
You made me very happy by publicly posting this! :) I've been wondering about my "true" age lately. . .
I think that you have to workout continuously for a long enough period of time for your heart, lungs and muscles to develope the capacity to work efficiently for long periods of time. Doing this will enable your body to handle the stress of hard training and racing. I can not think of any reason that this can not be accomplished by continuous long swims. I don't think it makes any difference to your body whether you swim 10x200 at 2:40 or just swim 2000 yards holding a 2:40 pace every 200 and just not stopping every 200 yards. You don't stop every 200 yards when you race, do you?
I think that you have to do some sprinting during every workout, but if you intend to compete in events of 200M or more you need at least as much endurance as speed. The longer the event is the more important endurance becomes as a factor in your success.
You also need to swim some of your yardage at a pace similar to your race pace and you have to do enough yardage at that pace to get used to that level of effort and the anaerobic fatigue that you feel when you race. I don't think that the hard yardage has to be the majority of your workout or even has to be done everyday.
I do agree that you can not train effectively by swimming only at a "garbage yardage" pace. If you don't develope the ability to sprint, you will find yourself getting passed on the last lap by the swimmers who are in good enough shape to hang with you and have developed the speed to pull away from you at the end of the race.:canada:
Keith, in scrolling down the list, I actually recognize a number of great swimmers, many of whom are regular posters here on the forums.
Shirley A Loftus-Charley
David J Barra
Jim Mc Conica
Thomas J Patterson
Christopher A LaBianco
Are just a few of the top-mileage greats that I recognize within our ranks.
James A Adams M35 HMS
Jim...you missed me. I know there are others too:
That Guy M39 PNA
Peter McCoy M43 MATT
Kristi D Lee F37 SAWS
and we can't forget:
James Thornton M60 1776
My constant battle in practices is to be able to push myself far enough into the "discomfort" zone. It takes physical energy and emotional energy....Unfortunately the rest of my life (work, children, etc.) often requires that energy so I settle for leaving a little in the tank and not pushing to a highly uncomfortable stage of swimming. When I do have the luxury of pushing that hard (and most likely napping a couple of hours after the workout), and can summon the focus.....well, that is when I have seen my biggest gains in my times.
Dale, you make excellent points. I agree with you that without "discomfort" in practice, you won't swim at your peak in meets. My measure of discomfort in practice is pretty visceral: I like to feel my stomach contents entering the esophagus but not quite reaching the mouth and beyond. My lanemates appreciate this nod to etiquette.
I suppose my question is not so much an either/or kind of thing--i.e., long continuous yards at a reasonably humane pace, or interval training with plenty of peri-vomit-inducing periods of discomfort. I assume you must do the latter to swim your best in meets. My question is can the former help you do the latter? Or would you be better off just taking more rest days?
I've been experimenting this year (2012) with the hypothesis that garbage yards on the off days actually helps swimming performance, assuming they are not a replacement for hard swimming during regular practices.
As of yesterday, I am up to 85.28 miles this year, which for me is a lot; I have also swum every day in February, for a total of 43.49 miles as of yesterday, again, a lot for me.
My first "test" of whether this is helping came yesterday, when I did the 200 free at one of our little local meets. It was in a 5-lane, very shallow pool, and I raced at the tail end of a 16.09 mile swimming week. The 200 was my 4th event in around 2 hours, but I still managed a 2:00.07, which is a good mid-season time for me, and a 1.5 sec. drop from the last time I swam it (before the garbage yardage off-day swimming regimen began).
So Test #1 was a tentative pass.
Test #2 comes next Sunday, when I swim the 1650. I will keep you posted if I am not in the ICU.
I think that you have to workout continuously for a long enough period of time for your heart, lungs and muscles to develope the capacity to work efficiently for long periods of time. Doing this will enable your body to handle the stress of hard training and racing. I can not think of any reason that this can not be accomplished by continuous long swims. I don't think it makes any difference to your body whether you swim 10x200 at 2:40 or just swim 2000 yards holding a 2:40 pace every 200 and just not stopping every 200 yards. You don't stop every 200 yards when you race, do you?
I think that you have to do some sprinting during every workout, but if you intend to compete in events of 200M or more you need at least as much endurance as speed. The longer the event is the more important endurance becomes as a factor in your success.
You also need to swim some of your yardage at a pace similar to your race pace and you have to do enough yardage at that pace to get used to that level of effort and the anaerobic fatigue that you feel when you race. I don't think that the hard yardage has to be the majority of your workout or even has to be done everyday.
I do agree that you can not train effectively by swimming only at a "garbage yardage" pace. If you don't develope the ability to sprint, you will find yourself getting passed on the last lap by the swimmers who are in good enough shape to hang with you and have developed the speed to pull away from you at the end of the race.:canada:
Absolutely agree. I look at it this way: the body has all sorts of subsets of fast and slow twitch fibers. Sprinters really don't need too much of the latter, especially those who only do 50s. (I would argue that for 100s, you absolutely do need some aerobic conditioning, too.) Actually, swimming really does not have any events that are all-out anaerobic. You burn thru all the substrates for this within 8 seconds or so, if I recall correctly. Track has the 100 meters, and football coaches the 60 meters, which are pretty close to all out sprints. But until they include the 25 yard freestyle, there is no 100 percent pure sprint in swimming.
Anyhow, I think long swimming is particularly good for establishing the base you can call upon when all else has started to fail... Even sprinters like Leslie can benefit, if for no other reason than to clear out byproducts of anaerobic metabolism and allow them to concentrate on stroke mechanics.
I suspect the original question is about whether lots of low intensity yardage helps pool racing performance. If so, then people who do more yardage should be kicking butt in races.
I don't know if any of these people race, but the top 200 should be able to race a lot faster than me.
www.usms.org/.../gtdparticipants.php
Keith, in scrolling down the list, I actually recognize a number of great swimmers, many of whom are regular posters here on the forums.
Shirley A Loftus-Charley
David J Barra
Jim Mc Conica
Thomas J Patterson
Christopher A LaBianco
Are just a few of the top-mileage greats that I recognize within our ranks.
I suspect the original question is about whether lots of low intensity yardage helps pool racing performance. If so, then people who do more yardage should be kicking butt in races.
I don't know if any of these people race, but the top 200 should be able to race a lot faster than me.
www.usms.org/.../gtdparticipants.php
Let's assume that I am the slowest person on that list. I've only been swimming for about 3 years. Before that, I was a decent (not fast) breaststroker, but I could barely swim 50 yards of freestyle.
I don't think any of my yardage is garbage. In 2011, I made the list because I swam 3,000 yards, almost every day. I did that because I wanted to. Swimming is fun. Some days higher intensity, some days more focus on technique. Very little in terms of long, continuous yardage. My 2011 races were all OW or postal swims. I limited my OW races to 1-1.5K because I wanted to improve my speed.
In 2012, I'm well into the top 200 because I'm training for a marathon swim. This year, I do a lot of long, continuous swims. The other practices are about evenly split between high-intensity work and leisurely technique work. None of that's easy. It's all challenging in different ways. The long swims develop endurance and mental toughness. The high-intensity work is fun, energizing, and painful. The technique work takes the most discipline.
In each of the 3 years I've been swimming, I've taken about :10 off my 100-yard pace. I expect to do that again this year. I think that's reasonable progress for someone at my level.
At 65, all 10 of my fast twitch fibers have left me with only 2-3 remaining. Distance is my friend. We do many 200 x on 15 sec. rest so I do not call that junk yards at all! At least for me.
I suspect the original question is about whether lots of low intensity yardage helps pool racing performance. If so, then people who do more yardage should be kicking butt in races.
I don't know if any of these people race, but the top 200 should be able to race a lot faster than me.
www.usms.org/.../gtdparticipants.php
