stamina... or mental block

many thanks, extremely useful - realistically my goal is to be able to get up to 1Km and beyond in front crawl, so going back to what I used to do in terms of distance in breaststroke. Time/speed as such doesn't bother me, never imagined myself working on speed, I'm glad to use swim as my main exercise and just get some proper distances covered as continuous nice long workout. Thanks for the recipe, too, I find it realistic to do as you wrote, in reasonable chunks with small break in-between, then work up intensity hopefully. I'll try and see progress, very grateful for your time & understanding--

Hello, first of all thanks in advance for having a peek at this... I'm 'only' 38 and I've had very severe asthma until my mid-twenties. I only managed to swim back then in small doses, and in recent decade or so, after my asthma 'left me' finally, I managed to get my swimming up to the (maybe puny but for me never before thought) level of being able to do 1Km breaststroke in 26-28 minutes depending on whether I'm having a good or bad day... This with just a couple of short stops only, trying to keep going as much as I can. Now due to my back, last summer I was adviced to switch to freestyle, which before I only used for maybe 50m or so as 'fun' for speed. I manage almost exactly 17 seconds on 25m, but then I'm dead :) I found the transition extremely difficult, although I have tuned it with expert help, made it much more relaxed & optimal than before. I also cycle a lot, with some weight training, did martial arts and I'm quite toned, people think I must be at quite some performance level... but I really am not: Please be gentle, but since August 'til now, swimming 3-4 times a week, I find it basically impossible to get past a 100-150m barrier (sometimes even worse, whether it is in 25m or 50m pool that I can use locally). Then I have to stop and really catch my breath. This even at slow speed of doing 100m in about 2 minutes, which I know is... very slow. I breathe on every 3 strokes, can change to every 2 on same side when I get really tired but I try to sustain every 3. I watch in amazement much older people who continuously manage huge distances I can't get imagine doing. Being out of breath and heart pumping triggers, admittedly, old panics and fears, it used to continue with extremely bad things when I was a kid. But if one assumes my current freestyle is not completely inefficient (I'm told it really isn't)... I just can't tell whether I carry some legacy from asthma days and simply I am never going to be able to increase my stamina AND I might do myself damage... or I simply have a mental block around the 'barrier'. But that barrier, as per above, comes so early it makes me almost cry with frustration sometimes. I set out with realistic goals and I just can't seem to progress, my fear being that I just don't know beyond what point I really give myself a heart attack or something :) But seriously, I tried to work on stamina by doing 100m-150m chunks with increasing intensity, after a proper warm-up, but by 2nd 'dose' I get so knackered I need to either stop or switch to breastroke after 50m... Due to my past, I never managed to do any stamina-based sports, and I just don't know what a serious barrier feels like in swimming either, or one that can be just ignored and try and soldier through it. It just can't be this bad physically... have you encountered such 'cases'? IF based on the above it is even possible to give advice, and if it's just a heck of a mental block, not sure how to get past it. Any thoughts much appreciated, thanks in advance,D. First, what's your goal? Sounds like you're trying too hard be more relaxed and efficient when you swim check out Total Immersion Swimming Freestyle Demo by Shinji Takeuchi - YouTube Learn proper pacing, you want to even or negative split your swims, hold the same times if you work too hard, you'll go slower Train 5 - 6x/wk instead of 3 or 4 Train with a team, get coaching On longer swims, Breathe every 2 instead of 3 Follow your progress with test sets that you do every other week: do 5 or 10 50's or 100's taking 5, 10, 15, or 20 seconds rest at the end of each one, what pace can you hold? Improve on your push offs and streamlines, push off harder and glide further What suit are you wearing? Wear a faster suit in practice. Be patient, it takes weeks and months to get in better shape

I probably (definitely) repeat myself in saying thanks, really - Regarding the issue with triathlonists, I agree and appreciate the opinion very much, it also represents quite a different world from where I (to some level) would eventually like to end up in. So for now I think the most useful was that he switched me from high-intensity , tense (and quite wrong) technique elements to something more sustainable, but on even some technique details I had to object (e.g. thumb first entry, which even my Dad very firmly counter-recommended - but maybe this is just due to what 'school' one emerged from). I wasn't sure about the very 'mandatory' every 3rd stroke breathing either and already from all your valuable replies, it seems that it is normal to switch to something that in essence stays bilateral, just that I alternate one side with another over e.g. pool length. I just can't imagine, from what I feel, that I could sustain with my lungs that kind of ideal breathing pattern. And sorry if I created the impression that I believe my form is perfect :), far from me -- I just mean that I have come from an extremely bad place to something that at least partially puts my mind at rest about my limitations being purely due to hugely inefficient form. I used to joke last year that my mid-life crisis kicked in the form of trying to re-train myself for better technique, so I definitely intend to work on it. Thanks for the video idea, I might have the courage to embarrass myself :), but it will be extremely useful. Kind regards, D.

I am glad to hear of your progress! However, I thought I could add a few points: (1) Exhalation Rate: I tell all my swimmers to think of your lung capacity as a gas tank. You want to refuel with air before you get to Empty, preferably when you are about 1/8th of a tank. You can, like with your gas pedal in a car, control the rate at which you use up your lung contents. You need to gauge your exhalation rate to reach that 1/8th of a tank right about when you plan on breathing. Thus, if you are breathing every three strokes, you should reach 1/8th tank right before you turn for air. If you are breathing every second stroke, you should reach 1/8th tank right before you turn for your breath on your second stroke. This keeps enough air in your lungs at all times to sustain your lungs, keeps you from triggering the breathing reflex feeling of urgency too soon, and allows for you to maximize your inhalation intake when you turn your head to breathe. (2) Blood Oxygen Levels: If you have not swam for a while, you may not yet have the blood oxygen levels necessary for short-course or long-course sets, or even for every third stroke breathing. A lot of one's initial progress in a swim practice, and almost all of one's progress in a swim meet race, is due to high blood oxygen levels built up over time. As mentioned above, even experienced long-distance swimmers will revert to breathing every other stroke at times, and this is because, eventually, they are relying on aerobic production, which is not nearly as comfortable a proposition as the anaerobic benefit you get from your high blood oxygen levels at the outset of the workout. The good news is that this can be built up over time, but only so long as you continue to push your body to build up those stores. (3) Type of Asthma: What type of asthma do you have? If it is not exercise-induced, then swimming may help with your recovery, so long as you are careful. Many asthma-sufferers that I have known have benefited greatly from swimming. Now, if it is exercise-induced asthma, that's a harder road, and you have to proceed at a slower, safer, pace, and that is to be expected. However, you will still progress with a bit of dedication. (4) Second-Stroke Breathing: One reason why I always tend to recommend breathing every third stroke is because it encourage symmetry of the right and left sides. When you consistently breathe on only one side, you begin to subconsciously specialize and tailor each side to breathing or non-breathing, which can create unevenness in the stroke. So, while it seems that breathing every second stroke is the right course of action for now, you probably should eventually work back to an every third stroke style. (5) Streamlining: Related to that note is the importance of streamline position in all competitive strokes. You may be wasting too much energy with an inefficient stroke. Sprinters tend to have a different stroke style than distance swimmers, and that is due to the balance between efficiency and power. Longer strokes emphasizing a half-streamline position with every extension before the catch tend to be more energy-efficient, whereas shorter strokes are less efficient but provide a higher power output. Again, think of a car. Driving at 55mph is highly efficient for fuel usage, but not super fast. Driving at 110mph is very fast, but burns gas. Both have their uses. For the time being, until your blood oxygen levels and lung tolerance builds, though, you should probably drive 55, meaning practice longer, gliding strokes. As a drill, you should count the number of strokes you use to cross the pool and then drop it by 1 stroke for each of three remaining length in a 100yd set. It will get you a feel for longer strokes capitalizing on inertial movement. I hope that helps. --Sean I am confused about what you mean by blood oxygen level.I am not familiar with research of O2 saturation while swimming,but that would be really interesting.I would think that O2 sat. might decrease slightly during sprints.The body's urge to breath is not related to O2 sat but to CO2 sat. While breathing every third stroke helps symmetry it must not be very efficient as there are very few elite male distance swimmers who use it.

I am glad to hear of your progress! However, I thought I could add a few points: (1) Exhalation Rate: I tell all my swimmers to think of your lung capacity as a gas tank. You want to refuel with air before you get to Empty, preferably when you are about 1/8th of a tank. You can, like with your gas pedal in a car, control the rate at which you use up your lung contents. You need to gauge your exhalation rate to reach that 1/8th of a tank right about when you plan on breathing. Thus, if you are breathing every three strokes, you should reach 1/8th tank right before you turn for air. If you are breathing every second stroke, you should reach 1/8th tank right before you turn for your breath on your second stroke. This keeps enough air in your lungs at all times to sustain your lungs, keeps you from triggering the breathing reflex feeling of urgency too soon, and allows for you to maximize your inhalation intake when you turn your head to breathe. (2) Blood Oxygen Levels: If you have not swam for a while, you may not yet have the blood oxygen levels necessary for short-course or long-course sets, or even for every third stroke breathing. A lot of one's initial progress in a swim practice, and almost all of one's progress in a swim meet race, is due to high blood oxygen levels built up over time. As mentioned above, even experienced long-distance swimmers will revert to breathing every other stroke at times, and this is because, eventually, they are relying on aerobic production, which is not nearly as comfortable a proposition as the anaerobic benefit you get from your high blood oxygen levels at the outset of the workout. The good news is that this can be built up over time, but only so long as you continue to push your body to build up those stores. (3) Type of Asthma: What type of asthma do you have? If it is not exercise-induced, then swimming may help with your recovery, so long as you are careful. Many asthma-sufferers that I have known have benefited greatly from swimming. Now, if it is exercise-induced asthma, that's a harder road, and you have to proceed at a slower, safer, pace, and that is to be expected. However, you will still progress with a bit of dedication. (4) Second-Stroke Breathing: One reason why I always tend to recommend breathing every third stroke is because it encourage symmetry of the right and left sides. When you consistently breathe on only one side, you begin to subconsciously specialize and tailor each side to breathing or non-breathing, which can create unevenness in the stroke. So, while it seems that breathing every second stroke is the right course of action for now, you probably should eventually work back to an every third stroke style. (5) Streamlining: Related to that note is the importance of streamline position in all competitive strokes. You may be wasting too much energy with an inefficient stroke. Sprinters tend to have a different stroke style than distance swimmers, and that is due to the balance between efficiency and power. Longer strokes emphasizing a half-streamline position with every extension before the catch tend to be more energy-efficient, whereas shorter strokes are less efficient but provide a higher power output. Again, think of a car. Driving at 55mph is highly efficient for fuel usage, but not super fast. Driving at 110mph is very fast, but burns gas. Both have their uses. For the time being, until your blood oxygen levels and lung tolerance builds, though, you should probably drive 55, meaning practice longer, gliding strokes. As a drill, you should count the number of strokes you use to cross the pool and then drop it by 1 stroke for each of three remaining length in a 100yd set. It will get you a feel for longer strokes capitalizing on inertial movement. I hope that helps. --Sean

Thanks all and seriously useful advice, I should have tried this forum earlier :) - really, thanks guys. On the asthma question: I had triple allergy (dust, pollen, feathers) but thankfully that went away and what remained was physical effort-induced 'part' - however, in recent years managed to at least push this into the background. So while I don't manage to trigger attacks any more, my lung capacity is, well, not ideal but at least lets me do things I couldn't dream of before. And for swimming, since I changed to front crawl, I think main problem was my becoming very tense as soon as I felt that I am running out of air. So I agree, breathing on every 3rd, on top of everything else, felt and feels most comfortable - I just can't sustain it beyond some puny distances, so kept hitting a panic wall. I much agree that probably now, until I get to some distances that I can sustain without 'dying' every 100m or so, breathing every 2 will help in progressing then would try changing back to really bilateral breathing. Brill idea on strokes, I'd so try that, I kept always just doing faster shorter rushed strokes as soon as I tried to speed up even a little. I guess need to be more self-conscious about long strokes but never thought of the trick of reducing the counts. Thanks heaps, really - off to pool tomorrow once again :)

... first of all I managed in last two sessions, starting at usual warm-up tempo so that I can get some comparison, 20 lengths in 20m pool - and then stopped, without being totally dead as before, just kinda tired :) and then short break, and I could carry on again. ...after the 400m warmup I tried as relaxed as possible --> 5 x 20m with open turns, 1:56 --> then same , cranked it up a bit and ended up with 1:48 (but was quite dead at the end) --> rest, 3rd 100m went back to 1:53 ... :applaud: This is great. Real progress, and now you have a starting point to gauge your progress on nx100.

Yes! So glad to hear that you've gotten over your hurdle! Well done.

As a quick update, I have experimented with not rigidly sticking to breathing on every 3rd. To see if without any change in form (apart from the obvious breathing pattern change itself) I can feel some difference, now tried in three sessions doing first 60-80m (in 20m pool) or 50-75m (in 25m pool) with breathing on every 3, then switch to every 2. Then started alternating sides on each length, also tried every 5-6 strokes changing sides. The result surprised me, first of all I managed in last two sessions, starting at usual warm-up tempo so that I can get some comparison, 20 lengths in 20m pool - and then stopped, without being totally dead as before, just kinda tired :) and then short break, and I could carry on again. I never in my life managed 400m without stopping, at any speed :) since I "re-trained" to try using front crawl as main style. Might be laughable, it's OK, I can't hear it from here :) but I was over the moon considering how frustrated I was last few months. I can't tell you what it felt like just not stopping for 'ages' and being able to carry on keeping pace. So thanks for getting me away from rigid obsession with 'must do every 3rd breathing'. Then for times, as advised, tried to do 100m then short break and again and again. Now the times are with open turns (I can't do flip turns, well, yet...) and if laughable, so be it :) but it looks like this, on my last attempt: after the 400m warmup I tried as relaxed as possible --> 5 x 20m with open turns, 1:56 --> then same , cranked it up a bit and ended up with 1:48 (but was quite dead at the end) --> rest, 3rd 100m went back to 1:53 ah well... So will keep doing sets of 100m and push it, see if there is any chance of getting faster (although my main aim was to be able to do distance, not too obsessed with time... but I'm getting a bit excited now at my grand old age of 38... and *** stroker all my recent life since I could do any swimming to speak of). Thanks again, let's see how it goes - when I'm not totally knackered, I manage still 17 - 18 seconds on 25m in the other pool (then I die...), so speed technique is something I anyway don't have but will have more fun trying...

ah, well, that certainly helps. as i mentioned, i'm not a doctor at all, so the finer points of these relations are a bit fuzzy for me. but, the gist of it remains that it takes training to elevate the levels of oxygen in your blood, and when you deplete the oxygen levels in your blood, you rely increasingly on breathing. but, as to your point about streamline, that's exactly the point to which i was alluding when mentioning that, ideally, it would be better to not breathe at all. as you mentioned, breathing wrecks the streamline a bit, so the more you breathe, the worse your streamline effect. I appreciate the clarification, though, as it's been quite a bit since I studied up on the Krebs Cycle.