Possible to improve 30min distance w/only 30min sessions?

Guys, in my opinion, serious improvement is swimming a mile in less than 18min - I consider that's impossible to achieve by swimming only 30min a day. An 18 min mile corresponds to about a 16:52 1650. Given that he is retired and other clues in his post, I'm guessing that he is in the 55-59 age group. 16:52 would shatter the world record for that age group (17:11). Anything under 20 would get him in the top ten for the year. I'd guess that 18 minutes isn't really acheivable under an swimming program for that age group but it would be some serious improvement. Can he break a 30 minute mile by just training 30 min a day? I worked up to a mile in 30 minutes by just swimming a mile every day for about a month. I didn't have any serious racing background. I'm pretty sure he could do the same. I'd guess that a 25 minute mile is achievable with 30 min/day. Good streamlined flip turns are going to be the key to significant improvement. If you lose 1 second a turn, you are giving up 90-100 seconds per mile. Find a good flip turn/streamline video and learn to do it correctly (I think www.goswim.tv has some - also has some good stroke videos). Check your math. At 56 feet, you only need 47.1 laps to make a mile. If 48 laps is exactly a mile, your pool is 55 feet long. If the former is correct, you might already be making it. If the latter, be patient... it will come. Do intervals. If I had started with the workout Ande laid out, I'd have acheived a 30 minute mile much faster than I did and I wouldn't have been nearly as bored.

Guys, in my opinion, serious improvement is swimming a mile in less than 18min A 12 minute drop in the mile would certainly be a serious improvement.

As Debugger wrote, we really aren't sure what you are asking, BUT: If you swim 30 minutes straight every day, you will probably not get better. In fact, I think you will get worse/slower** But it is possible to get better in just 30 minutes if you implement a program. ** I see alot of swimmers who just do straight/non-stop swims. I have noticed that 10 minutes into the straight swim they are taking 5-6 more strokes per lap than they did when they started. The result of the swim is that they ingrain an inefficient stroke. 6 months later they are slower than when they started.

Wow, SO much great advise. Thank you all so much! I don't know where to begin responding, esp since it's bedtime. I esp liked this encouraging remark from Ande: Because your mile takes you around 30 minutes, there has to be some low hanging technique improvement fruit for you to pick. Thanks for that Ande, and your suggested workouts. I found out the local Pastor/ex coach I mentioned is Brad Hering who is even listed on this site. Maybe I can rope him into a little moonlighting away from church. Otherwise, about some other questions & comments. Yes, I do count my strokes, and I breath alternate sides. Rather than timing splits, I've just been wearing a HRM and recording daily Avg/Peak and 1 min cooldown rates. I've been a fitness runner or swimmer since college 30 yrs ago, so I have always been able to keep my weight in check (I'm 6'1" and currently 180, ...that's about 5 lbs high for me) Yes, I just went out and got a proper swimsuit. My board shorts didn't bother me when I was just working out. But last Friday going for time, they were a real DRAG! Having read all your generous advise, I think I would be willing to give a little more than 30 minutes/day. I swim Mon-Fri...sometimes Sat for a makeup day. Wow...to get down into the mid 20s would be unbelievable! Back when I was leaning to swim laps in my mid-20s, the local HIgh school swim coach would give me pointers. I told him Johnny Weismuller was one of my heros. He said that the girls on his high school team had already beat his olympic records ;-)

You come up with a program that could get a typical geezer to do a mile in 18 minutes? Please let me know. Thanks. For the original pooster? I would consider alternating three workouts. 1) Push as ahrd as you can for 30 minutes. 2) Short warmup. do a 400 fast, take a couple relaxed laps, do another 400 fast, (maybe a 3rd one?) short wind down. 3) Short warmup. 100 yard sprints (or maybe 3 lengths, which might be 110, if I understand your pool diminsions correctly) with short rests, until you have maybe 4 minutes left, then a wind down. Of course you time would get a whole loty better if you did longer workouts for a month or two. Then 30 minutes a day would slow the inevitable decline. Ok, maybe I exaggerated a bit telling about 18 min. At the beginning I didn't realize he's in his 50s. Anyway a mile in 30min means there's a room for improvement of the technique. Paul 1953, I wonder what is your heart rate staight after you swim a mile and after a minute? I don't consider 1 program would be enough a good planning is required. Since a mile is a long distance I would suggest to make a planning for half a year: 1) 2 months you need to work on basic endurance and technique. That means you need to swim not faster than 60% of MHR concentrating on technique. I am not sure what kind of gaps you have in your technique - the good idea would be to ask some coach to see it. Then knowing what to work on you can select exercises to fix that problems. Swim sets which contain exercises alternating with full stroke, like 8x200 - 50 exercise / 50 full stroke. or 4x400 or 2x800 in the same manner. Once a week you may swim entire mile but don't rush, try to keep heart rate not more than 60-70%. 2) next 2 months you add threshold work. I will not write how to define anaerobic threshold, if you don't know - there are plenty articles. half of the tasks you do should be still aerobic - 60% MHR and exercises. but now you also swim 1-2 a week interval sets like 8x200 or 16x100 on 80-85% of the MHR(depending on you threshold) Rest 10-15 sec. Try to keep the same time each 100 - 200. If you fade then you took high rhythm - next time decrease it a bit. The beginning should feel very easy but it will get hard but you should be able to maintain same time. 3) next 2 months. Here 1st of these 2 months you add some some lactate production and lactate tolerance sets (could be same 8x200 but on 90-95% of the MHR) and 2nd month some speed sets like 16x100 - 25 all out / 75 easy Here you also can do what Mick advised "Short warmup. do a 400 fast, take a couple relaxed laps, do another 400 fast, (maybe a 3rd one?) short wind down." Last 2 weeks decrease intensity and rest. At the end of these 2 weeks swim a mile. Record time. Each half a year your time should improve. Mile or 1.5K is a serious work and requires serious approach and planning. Later you may use this schema to prepare for competitions with slight changes. For sprinters it's easier, personally I swim 50 and 100 so I can split my season into smaller - 3 months cycles. After certain level you will feel that 30 min is not enough to improve. Here's a nice overview of the swimming planning phases - www.brianmac.co.uk/.../swimplan.htm Also I would advice to get a book "Serious Training for Endurance Athletes" by Rob Sleamaker and Ray Browning - great book which describes in details preparation process for triathlon events and can be used by endurance swimmers. Amazon.com: Serious Training for Endurance Athletes 2nd (9780873226448): Rob Sleamaker, Ray Browning: Books

Wow, SO much great advise. Thank you all so much! I don't know where to begin responding, esp since it's bedtime. I esp liked this encouraging remark from Ande: Thanks for that Ande, and your suggested workouts. I found out the local Pastor/ex coach I mentioned is Brad Hering who is even listed on this site. Maybe I can rope him into a little moonlighting away from church. Otherwise, about some other questions & comments. Yes, I do count my strokes, and I breath alternate sides. Rather than timing splits, I've just been wearing a HRM and recording daily Avg/Peak and 1 min cooldown rates. I've been a fitness runner or swimmer since college 30 yrs ago, so I have always been able to keep my weight in check (I'm 6'1" and currently 180, ...that's about 5 lbs high for me) Yes, I just went out and got a proper swimsuit. My board shorts didn't bother me when I was just working out. But last Friday going for time, they were a real DRAG! Having read all your generous advise, I think I would be willing to give a little more than 30 minutes/day. I swim Mon - Fri ... sometimes Sat for a makeup day. Wow...to get down into the mid 20s would be unbelievable! Back when I was leaning to swim laps in my mid-20s, the local High school swim coach would give me pointers. I told him Johnny Weismuller was one of my heros. He said that the girls on his high school team had already beat his olympic records ;-) Hey There Paul, You're welcome. since you're paul 1953 my guess is you were born in 53 and you're 58. I recall a Brad Hering who was a butterflyer? on roping him in, I suggest you begin with lunch or breakfast or find out if and when he's training and train when and where he does. what are your stroke counts? just note that when you breathe on alternate sides, every 3, you don't get as many breaths per length than you do by breathing every 2 on the same side. "Rather than timing splits" you want to pay attention to your times and splits. is there any chance you can gain access to a 25 y or m pool? is there any chance you can drive a little extra once or twice a week to train with a masters group? you've been a fitness runner & swimmer since college just know that sometimes when runners start swimming they have a tendancy to over kick when they swim. Not sure if that's an issue for you. you need a nice steady 2 beat kick you might benefit from total immersion swimming, which would teach you to work less and glide more when you swim There's several good youtube videos (I'll find the link) TI's main concepts are: + take Long smooth steady arm strokes, + use a small 2 beat kick mainly for balance, + Rotate from side to side when you swim, and + align your body when you swim, begin with head position, swim with your head down, look at the bottom of the pool when you swim, if you swim with your head up, your hips sink, making you slower and less efficient. + Take fewer strokes per length, if you exert less effort when you swim, you can swim longer at a stronger pace. you've kept your weight in check (6'1" 180 is good, you are lean) you might benefit from strengthing swimming muscles you wore board shorts and now you got a proper suit. Do you mean a jammer or a brief? That alone should make a signficant difference. Consider wearing board shorts in practice Mon - Thu then your faster suit on Friday's when you do your fast mile for time Also wearing a TECH SUIT JAMMER can make a signicant difference in your time Speaking of your fast mile for time, you need to establish accurate bench mark figure out the exact distance you'll swim and a way to time it to the second. Training more than 30 minutes a day will help you get more fit and give you time to include additional sets in your workouts. training 5x a week is good 6 or 7 is better. Put forth a sincere training effort for several months and you should signifcantly improve your mile. Ask a friend with an iphone to video you swimming freestyle at your mile pace in and out of a turn from: 1) head on swimming towards and away, and 2) from the side Put both videos on youtube then post the links in this thread & ask folks to view your technique and offer suggestions My suggestion about changing technique is: Changing technique is HARD, you have to focus on the correction while you're swimming until it sticks the moment you stop focusing and doing the correction you're likely to fall back into your old habit. so ONLY attempt to correct technique if it makes you faster or helps you avoid injuries. Only focus on 1, 2 or 3 corrections at a time. Less is more Use short reminders like: Streamline skinny, Push off hard, Glide FAR Head down Smooth strokes Small kick Think them and do them Johnny Weismuller His times were pretty good, his 57.4 100 LCM fr is a time most high school girls can't beat. Especially if they couldn't wear goggles, had to wear the same kind of suit he wore in 1924, and race in the same pool set up and lane lines. His 4:57 400 fr was less impressive, today some 10, 11, & 12 year old girls swim faster than that. Lastly set more goals, like training for and racing in a masters meet prepare for and race the 50, 100, 200, 400, 800, & 1500 or the 50, 100, 200, 500, 1000, & 1650. Preparing for a meet and races will give you something specific for train for, plus when you race, you'll have electronic splits in a standard length pool, which will show you how your times for different distances relate to each other and you'll have helpful info on how to improve. Hope this helps, Ande

Just to wrap up this thread I started. Thank you again for all your input and suggested workouts. Brad Hering generously gave me an hour of his time poolside yesterday. Yes Ande there was indeed some "low hanging technique fruit" that he was able to point out. 1) My hands were entering the water too soon, not fully extended. 2) They were entering centered inline with my head, rather than slightly to the side inline with my shoulders. ( a hangover from learning the sculling S curve) Today, just by focusing on those 2 things, I was able to shave 40 seconds off my last 3rd of a mile (550m)) at the end of the workout, though I was tired! Drills he wants me to focus on are: 1) FS stroke using fists, and 2) double strokes each side. 3) Stretch, stretch, stretch, arms high above the head, touching my ears. All in all he said my stroke was not bad for a 58 yr old self-taught amateur. :) Here are a couple of clips he took of me in our mini (55') pool. Coach correcting my stroke 1 http://youtu.be/bujJ34dkfZI Coach correcting my stroke 2 (Brad's a very upbeat, encouraging guy!) http://youtu.be/E0BQ7Tkn7UI Thanks again everyone for your workout suggestions. I'm encouraged. I can see at least a couple of minutes falling off my 1 mile time.

any updates?

If you go from not swimming 30 mins per day, to doing so, of course you will improve your time/distance. By how much I don't know. Even if you only have 30 mins, don't be tempted to swim non-stop all the time (as others have advised). Most important, though, the health benefits will outweigh any time improvements.