do you ever let Mr/Mrs/significant other sickfish get the last word? Because I don't either. :)
Of course. When I agree with it :D
A more reasonable theory might be clear water/less waves. A joy of thrashing the octogenerians (local meet) you were seeded with is another possibility about as likely as almost Olympians entering 8-10 secs over their final world record 50 time (surprisingly just after being seen cowering and vomiting in the corner bathroom stall in their profound anticipatory fear of failure).
My position is that someone may have a reason to sandbag that is different than "just to be a jerk". I proposed one, I'm sure there are others. There are, in fact, perspectives other than your own. Bashing these swimmers by pretending to cheer their "time drops" is not bringing you any closer to understanding those perspectives. You're also undermining the fact that some of these really are great swims.
... If you won the fast heat at nationals and thought you had won, you would have been wrong. The first person mentioned in this thread always enters extremely slow times (also the same team) and regularly kills the heats she is in (and is a 3 time Olympian). I'm not disputing she is a great swimmer. I just cannot believe that the ridiculously slow times she enters is fear of failure. ...
I think it's pretty laughable that you're so bent out of shape about this one specific swimmer. Most of us who have the misfortune of being both in her age group and swimming the same events know she's going to do what she does - we account for that when we see psych sheets, we automatically bump ourselves down a place in the heat to get our actual results once we've actually swum, and we move on. You're not the same gender or age as her, and if those of us actually impacted by it have come to terms with it (or don't even care about it in the first place), why do you have to whine about it? And so publicly call her out?
I think it's pretty laughable that you're so bent out of shape about this one specific swimmer.
Try to stay with me Mollie. Your quote includes two DIFFERENT swimmers. I've officially called out two relays and 3 individuals in this thread (I only went to a state school but I think that's more than one).
I am a member of USMS and can post what I want (within certain rules). You are welcome to read it or not. While you find it amusing and are dumbfounded why I care, I too am perplexed by a different reason--why you don't care about sportsmanship and respect for others.
Try to stay with me Mollie. Your quote includes two DIFFERENT swimmers. I've officially called out two relays and 3 individuals in this thread (I only went to a state school but I think that's more than one).
I am a member of USMS and can post what I want (within certain rules). You are welcome to read it or not. While you find it amusing and are dumbfounded why I care, I too am perplexed by a different reason--why you don't care about sportsmanship and respect for others.
My main point was only that you've called out one single swimmer in this thread by name. To me, it seems if you're willing to name a specific swimmer, but only make oblique references to other teams, you've got a bigger bone to pick with the swimmer you've called out by name. And I think you're making a big leap that she's being unsportsmanlike and disrespectful by seeding herself the way she does. Unless you've talked to her, how can you know her motives for seeding herself in the manner that she does? Again, those of us who are directly impacted by her seeding decisions aren't whinging about them, so I guess I'm never going to understand your distress. Unless you have a horse in this race that I'm not seeing?
Also, nowhere in my post did I tell you that you can't post whatever you'd like. Not implicitly or explicitly. But I can express my perplexity with your fixation on this specific swimmer. And why you consider sandbagging disrespectful.
My main point was only that you've called out one single swimmer in this thread by name.
Read it again (first few); all but one were named: Noriko (PSC), Nick, and Phoenix Swim Club (PSC) relays. The other individual (PSC) not named but referred to later from Greensboro either was talked to or decided to enter appropriate times this time around although did not end up swimming.
And if you see winning a national championship from a slower seeded heat as respectful/fair to others without a prelims/finals format then I will not be able to convince you otherwise.
Read it again (first few); all but one were named: Noriko (PSC), Nick, and Phoenix Swim Club (PSC) relays. The other individual (PSC) not named but referred to later from Greensboro either was talked to or decided to enter appropriate times this time around although did not end up swimming.
And if you see winning a national championship from a slower seeded heat as respectful/fair to others without a prelims/finals format then I will not be able to convince you otherwise.
My mistake on the names.
As for winning a national championship from a slower heat being fair/respectful- if Noriko has a lane, she's winning a national championship. Regardless of heat assignment. It's an inevitability unless she gets DQd. To me, it's a moot point. It's not like there was a single female in attendance at Mt. Hood that would have even been within striking distance of any of her backstroke times if we'd been in the same heat as her. So, taking the long view, it's not really worth getting bent about.
Just for illustrative purposes:
Even with prelims/finals, and assuming we all swam the same times in finals, the next closest swimmer to her would have been 4.5, 8.5, and 14 seconds behind her (50, 100, and 200 back, respectively). Plus being backstroke, it's not like we're really going to see her anyways. For full disclosure, the swimmer who was 8.5 and 14 seconds behind her was me. It doesn't bother me that she wasn't right next to me for the 200 (she was next to me in the 100), because I know she's going to beat me 10/10 times we race. I guess that's why I can't understand why someone else who has no horse in the race cares so much. If anyone out there has a right to be :bitching: , it would be the swimmer who got 2nd in the 50 free who didn't get a chance to race her head-to-head.
In the end, different stroke for different folks, I guess.
As for winning a national championship from a slower heat being fair/respectful- if Noriko ...
I think it might be you who is focused on one person. The incident of winning national championships from slower heats does not refer to her. It happened with their relays and with the aforementioned person who perhaps has changed HIS ways.
You are absolutely correct in stating that nobody comes close to NI and even when she adds big times to her seeds, she is still in the fast heat. The male in my age group that won in Greensboro had two people within a second of him. Although they probably wouldn't have beat him, this loser (me) went from a big medal (3rd) to a microscopic, sad, small medal (4th). I believe there are a few out there that care about this as a general principle but perhaps not. I'm willing to let this die, never to be spoken about again, and maybe we can all hug it out in Riverside (if my daughter will change her wedding plans...so selfish that girl). :)
I think it might be you who is focused on one person. The incident of winning national championships from slower heats does not refer to her. It happened with their relays and with the aforementioned person who perhaps has changed HIS ways.
You are absolutely correct in stating that nobody comes close to NI and even when she adds big times to her seeds, she is still in the fast heat. The male in my age group that won in Greensboro had two people within a second of him. Although they probably wouldn't have beat him, this loser (me) went from a big medal (3rd) to a microscopic, sad, small medal (4th). I believe there are a few out there that care about this as a general principle but perhaps not. I'm willing to let this die, never to be spoken about again, and maybe we can all hug it out in Riverside (if my daughter will change her wedding plans...so selfish that girl). :)
Just as a point of clarification, NI won at least 3 of her national championships at Mt. Hood from not-the-fastest heat (both in pre-seeded and deck seeded events), so my comments still apply, even if you weren't talking about her. My mistake for reading a thread that specifically calls a person out and assuming situations that apply to her are actually about her.
My position is that someone may have a reason to sandbag that is different than "just to be a jerk".
I absolutely get where you are coming from but I still believe we are talking about different things. I'm coming at it from a sportsmanship, personal integrity, fair play kind of angle. We all add some time from year to year to our seed times as we presume we are getting slower. That is normal. I'm also the poster boy of irony as I'm the most famous sandbagger in USMS (I have had two past attempts--one successful and one not).
If you were in the two relays that got second after winning the fast heat in Portland and noted a certain team from the slow heat dropped two minutes, you might be pissed you were not afforded the opportunity to race that team. The winner in my age group for the 100 back in my age group at Greensboro, won from slow heat and surprise!...was also from that same team and repeatedly enters extremely slow times. If you won the fast heat at nationals and thought you had won, you would have been wrong. The first person mentioned in this thread always enters extremely slow times (also the same team) and regularly kills the heats she is in (and is a 3 time Olympian). I'm not disputing she is a great swimmer. I just cannot believe that the ridiculously slow times she enters is fear of failure.
I know you don't agree with my methods and I understand the practice of sandbagging in all its forms is certainly all legal and legit (if the race director allows you to get away with it). Frankly, despite evidence to the contrary of this never ending thread, I don't really care that much. There are certainly many culprits, but many I believe are unaware and innocent. I'm just calling out the repeat offenders that are really good swimmers that ought to know better...just to let them know that I think it's kind of a *** move(s).
It is rare for me to agree with Kirk, and I think that there can be "innocent" reasons for people entering times way off there finals times,but I agree that it is a little unfair for someone or some relay to win at Nats out of a heat other than the fast one due to a deliberate action.
