Assuming a certain yellow-clad team is the cherry here, I don't necessarily see them cherry-picking. They have now established themselves as a strong force at both Spring and Summer Nationals, and across all ages and both genders. If a swimmer in a situation like the above example seeks the team out for that reason, is that bad? I don't think so. I would hope that the swimmer exhausted all avenues with their existing club before making that decision.
Also, said team seems to be bringing brand new people to every nationals. I don't see how that is hurting anything.
These are good points. More people swimming and a team atmosphere is certainly worthwhile. However, the negative aspect is when teams essentially recruit fast swimmers to make attempts at National or World relay records. This just seems a little nefarious to me.
How do people feel about teams that cherry pick members from all over the U.S. or even other countries? There were definitely a couple like this at Nationals. It just seems a bit untoward to me.
One cherry-picked older-middle-aged swimmer told me a few months ago that he and another (female) swimmer from his team would be switching allegiances for LC nationals because they wanted to be on (age-appropriate) relays. As they are both east-coasters and were fairly confident that they might not get enough other swimmers to attend (a reasonable assumption), they switched. I don't have a problem with this.
Assuming a certain yellow-clad team is the cherry here, I don't necessarily see them cherry-picking. They have now established themselves as a strong force at both Spring and Summer Nationals, and across all ages and both genders. If a swimmer in a situation like the above example seeks the team out for that reason, is that bad? I don't think so. I would hope that the swimmer exhausted all avenues with their existing club before making that decision.
Also, said team seems to be bringing brand new people to every nationals. I don't see how that is hurting anything.
Submission for the day: Nick Blank 11:20 entry time for 800 free. 9:02 result for overall win. Courageous performance.
That swim stuck out like a sore thumb. Also, he "dropped" 36 seconds in his 200 back. Glad he wasn't in my age group.
Histrionic?
You're the one who thought "cry baby" was hateful vitriol, so, yeah.
I just don't really get the mentality of people that ALWAYS sandbag.
I might have some insight. For the record, I'm not an Olympian and I'm not setting any world records yet. I consistently swim 1:05-1:06 in my 100 LCM fly and 0:56.xx in the 100 SCY fly. I've done 1:04 and 0:55. But every time - every single time - I swim those races I don't think I can go that fast. I'm like "I'll just be happy if I go under 1:10" or "as long as I break a minute I'll be ok". And when I'm on the block I regret my seed times and signing up for those events. The fear of not meeting your seed time is a real thing, whether it's rational or not. Getting beaten is one thing - you can't control how fast other people go - but not meeting your seed time means you failed. A few times I've seeded myself with 1:08 or :58 and to be honest it just took so much pressure off. It made the race much less scary.
I might have some insight. For the record, I'm not an Olympian and I'm not setting any world records yet. I consistently swim 1:05-1:06 in my 100 LCM fly and 0:56.xx in the 100 SCY fly. I've done 1:04 and 0:55. But every time - every single time - I swim those races I don't think I can go that fast. I'm like "I'll just be happy if I go under 1:10" or "as long as I break a minute I'll be ok". And when I'm on the block I regret my seed times and signing up for those events. The fear of not meeting your seed time is a real thing, whether it's rational or not. Getting beaten is one thing - you can't control how fast other people go - but not meeting your seed time means you failed. A few times I've seeded myself with 1:08 or :58 and to be honest it just took so much pressure off. It made the race much less scary.
This I understand, but it's a question of degree. A few seconds on a 100 is one thing, 6 seconds on a 50 is another!
How do people feel about teams that cherry pick members from all over the U.S. or even other countries? There were definitely a couple like this at Nationals. It just seems a bit untoward to me.
I happen to be a member of the "Yellow Clad Team" so speak with some knowledge. We don't go and recruit swimmers. They come to us. There is usually a connection to a team member, but in some cases people have randomly approached and asked to join. If you check the results, you will see that every single person on our team scored at least one point due to strategic event choice, but there are few superstars. Our National team consisted of a broad spectrum of swimmers, and most are pretty average in ability. We are a team...we support one another, and have a lot of fun. Maybe that's what draws people to us.
Very nicely said, Kurt. I'm convinced that Masters Swimming is a pretty special arena....nothing like it. There are so many awe-inspiring efforts at any given competition, including Nationals in Oregon. I think we sometimes get wrapped up in the wrong focus instead of understanding how very special our sport is.
I might have some insight. For the record, I'm not an Olympian and I'm not setting any world records yet?! But every time - every single time - I swim those races I don't think I can go that fast. ...The fear of not meeting your seed time is a real thing, whether it's rational or not.
So your theory of why top level masters swimmers add 8 seconds to minutes on their seed time is fear of failure? It would seem if the pain and fear of failure is that profound, that not competing would be a healthier solution (as well as moving back with mother and getting back on the psychotropics) to the angst.
As far as cherry picking swimmers for teams, I was against it 20 plus years ago, but it has grown on me. It's all kind of part of the charm and personality of USMS. If one has not noticed, it's part serious and part free-for-all. We have national championships, but don't drug test. We have great swimmers who can enter whatever times they want. We have swimmers from one state, swimming and breaking records in another state. Perhaps, no other organization (us cycling, us triathlon) allows foreign athletes to complete for national championships and break national records like we do.
I love masters swimming and USMS. A lot of people work very hard to make it all run and I am grateful for its presence. If a fix is needed (and I'm not saying it is), perhaps the solutions are too expensive and time consuming. So, despite my episodic whining: Thanks USMS, you are my favorite serious free-for-all!😀
So your theory of why top level masters swimmers add 8 seconds to minutes on their seed time is fear of failure?
Yup. It makes sense, doesn't it? I think it's a perfectly reasonable explanation.
It would seem if the pain and fear of failure is that profound, that not competing would be a healthier solution
Well, that's not really for you to judge. Have you considered sitting out yourself, so as not to have to witness sandbagging? It seems to bother you a lot.
as well as moving back with mother and getting back on the psychotropics
I think that's very disrespectful. It might even rise to the level of hateful vitriol.
Yup. It makes sense, doesn't it? I think it's a perfectly reasonable explanation.
Have you considered sitting out yourself.
I can't tell if you are deliberately screwing with me, but I'll play along. What I'm talking about is: repetitive, extreme sandbagging, among elite swimmers (characteristics of which apply to neither you or me...unless sickfish isn't your real name?? Lochte, Phelps is it you?).
A more reasonable theory might be clear water/less waves. A joy of thrashing the octogenerians (local meet) you were seeded with is another possibility about as likely as almost Olympians entering 8-10 secs over their final world record 50 time (surprisingly just after being seen cowering and vomiting in the corner bathroom stall in their profound anticipatory fear of failure).
As far as me sitting out...denying USMS of my love, support, and heretofore untapped talents? Well, let's just say, it would be a crime.
BTW do you ever let Mr/Mrs/significant other sickfish get the last word? Because I don't either. :)
