I was just looking over the schedule for long course nationals in Auburn, AL and I see the 800 and 1500 are on the same day, as were the 1000 & mile in Mesa. Please have one race at the beginning of the meet and one at the end of the meet so distance swimmers can do all their races, thanks!
As it seems the reason for restriciting the distancers to 1 of those events is to ensure the meet runs within a reasonable timeframe, has anyone ever thought how it would affect the length of the meet if you restricted the sprinters so they had to choose betweeen the 50 free and 100 free? Those events may be shorter in distance, but have many more heats :worms::bolt:
As it seems the reason for restriciting the distancers to 1 of those events is to ensure the meet runs within a reasonable timeframe, has anyone ever thought how it would affect the length of the meet if you restricted the sprinters so they had to choose betweeen the 50 free and 100 free? Those events may be shorter in distance, but have many more heats :worms::bolt:
Check out the timeline for Mesa and you can answer this question:
www.usms.org/.../timeline.pdf
Even with more heats AND forcing d-types to choose, the sprint events took much less time than the distance events.
Jeff, What about a tougher qualifying time to limit the numbers that want to swim both. Eliminate the distance events from the events that you can swim without a QT. You can get the numbers down to a manageable level. It's a national championship not a zone meet.
Please look back at Portland again (2008 Summer Nationals). Distance swimmers had to choose either the 800 or the 1500 but not both. The projected timeline said the distance day would end at 9:20pm. I wasn't there but heard it actually went much later than that. So I would say you first need to have tougher qualifying times to be able to swim even one event before you begin to think about how to allow swimmers to do both. Again, a 5 day format or two courses solves the challenge. Two courses is ideal because not everybody can manage to take the time off from work/home for a 5 day meet.
Jeff
Jeff, What about a tougher qualifying time to limit the numbers that want to swim both. Eliminate the distance events from the events that you can swim without a QT. You can get the numbers down to a manageable level. It's a national championship not a zone meet.
Also, some meets do in fact require an NQT for a distance event (Auburn - 1500m). I think above you are suggestion the NQT should be required for either and then if somebody wants to swim both they have to meet a tigher NQT still. These are plausible ideas to allow some swimmers to do both but they come at the expense of discriminating against slower distance swimmers. I hear what you are saying that this Nationals and not a Zone/local meet. But we are also not USA-S and we do our best to accommodate all.
Also, there is a rule on the books that says the 400/500 cannot be the day after the distance day. This was put in place because too many distance swimmers complained about coming back the next day to swim the 400/500 free. That is why the 400 IM is usually on Friday (day after distance day). So I find it odd that some distance freestylers can't come back and do that double yet others say they can do both 800/1000 and 1500/1650 on the same day? :dunno:
Jeff
Also, there is a rule on the books that says the 400/500 cannot be the day after the distance day. This was put in place because too many distance swimmers complained about coming back the next day to swim the 400/500 free. That is why the 400 IM is usually on Friday (day after distance day). This is a dumb rule and distance swimmers who complained should be embarrassed to call themselves distance swimmers.
My view on this topic is completely unbiased by the fact that I enjoy both the 400 IM and the 1000/1650/800/1500.;)
Rules cannot be broken, but they can be changed (any LMSC or standing committee can propose a change at the annual convention). Here is the current rule that ties our hands:
104.5.2B Rotation of meet schedules—The particular schedule shall be rotated
in order (1, 2 and 3) among the three basic schedules shown in article
104.5.2A without regard to course.
(1) In odd-numbered years, men’s events shall be odd-numbered. In
even-numbered years, men’s events shall be even-numbered. On
the distance day only, men’s and women’s heats may be alternated
regardless of whether the year is odd-numbered or even-numbered.
(2) In each schedule, at the option of the meet director and with the
approval of the Championship Committee, the 800/1000 freestyle
and the 1500/1650 freestyle may be swum as either the first day
program or the last day program.
(3) Full days on the schedule may be interchanged so that the 400/500
freestyle and the 1500/1650 freestyle shall not be swum on consecutive
days.
However, I wonder if there is a loophole here. What if the HOD passes an order of events that violates this permutation (400/500 free and 1500/1650 being on consecutive days)? The rulebook appears to prohibit changing the days so this doesn't happen, but doesn't say anything about an original order of events having this violation. I'd need a Rules expert to clarify. Even so, order of events are set through 2015 Nationals. And the 2011 convention is not a "Rules" year so the earliest we could remove 104.5.2B (3) would be in 2012 (which would apply to 2013 Nationals and beyond). Rules can be proposed any year, but every other year it has to be considered an emergency. And quite frankly, this isn't an emergency.
The projected timeline said the distance day would end at 9:20pm. I wasn't there but heard it actually went much later than that.
I had to consult my swimming diary for this! I swam the 1500 there and was in the penultimate heat. I wrote that I swam at around 9:30 p.m., so the final heat probably finished around 10:00.
Of course swimming at night wasn't so bad at this meet considering it was around 100 degrees during the day time during that entire weekend.
Interesting...USMS wants to recruit more swimmers: a fairly large number are triathletes, yet we do not really promote the swimming of events thaey might like to swim if they went to Nationals!!! I've swum both the distance events on the same day at Y Nats. Below, Jeff, are some good ideas about how a meet could be run! JP
So I find it odd that some distance freestylers can't come back and do that double yet others say they can do both 800/1000 and 1500/1650 on the same day? :dunno:
I'm suggesting the 800 be swum as the morning session of the first day with other events in the afternoon and the 1500 be swum the last day as the afternoon session. Put the 400 Free as the first event of the day, the day before the 1500, which in most cases would be on the meets third day.
Switch up the 1500 and 800 each year for those who would like the 1500 as the first event. The 400 Free would remain on the day before the last distance event.
