2010 Short Course National - Etiquette

I am thinking about doing something like this for our meet in August. The only problem here is the success of lane-speed rules depends on the honesty of the swimmers in the water. Some people think higher of themselves than they should; others should think more highly of themselves than they do. Plus people do some kick during warmup, so it's not going to be perfect. Logically, this concept is great, but I've swum in too many lap pools where they do have a 'speed' designation to know that too many people overestimate their speed, as you note. Plus, beyond kicking, people will often do different strokes in warmup; would we need to change lanes when we switched from free to ***? I think this might end up setting people's expectations falsely and end up with more disappointment. I think we should all just aim to be big boys and girls and get along ... POLITELY entering the water, POLITELY being aware of others in the lane and doing the best we can. I know I never get in the kind of warmup I'd really want to do at a Nationals, but that's just part of the game.

I'm glad someone mentioned using people as the wall. At a meet a while back, I came upon a crowded wall, and there was someone in the middle who had had more than enough time to move. I did a slow flip turn (as not to hit them on the head with my heels) and straddled the person in the middle of the wall uncomfortably close (for them, at least) for a second before I pushed off. Next time down, everyone had moved over and there was plenty of room!! :bolt: Sometimes a person just doesn't have a choice if they are trying to get warmed-up. This is not something that people want to do but at times have to do.

Then what do you want everyone to do? A person can't get a good warm-up by stopping every 25. If people are crowding the wall and don't give the approaching swimmer a place to either stop or turn, then they become part of the wall for turning. If you have been swimming long enough, that is part of warm-ups. Swimmer don't do it intentionally but when given no other choice to continue their warm-up, they do what is best for them. You have described my warm up. I am exceedingly cognizant of the fact that I am older, slower and smaller than about 95 percent of those attending Nationals - yet a top ten swimmer in more than three events for each course since I started swimming about 5 years ago, so you're not exactly talking to an inexperienced swimmer. I'm tough enough, but don't expect to be pulled under by the foot so that someone could swim over the top of me, nor shoved into a lane line a body length from the wall because someone couldn't wait for me to pull off at the end of my sprint 25. When I stop, I hang on to the lane line so as to not impede others. I don't know what else to do in your world except to stay home which I will NOT do. I know what you think you deserve, but what makes it so important that people get hurt or are terrified to warm up? I don't think that this is what our sport is all about. Since I have decided to speak out on this subject, I have been accused of being the problem by you and others. That is kind of like blaming the victim of a crime which speaks volumes about the attitudes of fellow swimmers. Finally, I want to go on record that the large majority of swimmers are exceeding respectful of others. In our crowded warm ups, there is generally an attitude that we're all in this together, and people understand that they are sharing a crowded space. It is only a few people who forget their manners that make things dangerous. We're all there for the same reason - we love our sport and want to be the best we can be. "Excuse me" or "I'm sorry" would go a long way.

Sometimes a person just doesn't have a choice if they are trying to get warmed-up. This is not something that people want to do but at times have to do. But its not just that. Some people carry a sense of "Grand Entitlement" if you will. Sometimes that's cockiness, sometimes its complete ignorance of the world around them. There's gotta be a good way to encourage better behavior so we don't need so many rules....

I totally agree. I found the Atlanta warmup to be frightening. Some guys were jumping aggressively into the pool and landing like a cannon ball. I like the slip in rule or get kicked out.

Nobody ever seems to like what I say, but I am going to say it again. There is no substitute for good manners. I don't care how young or old you are; how fast or slow you are, you get my humble respect in the warm up pool. All I ask is that I receive the same from you. My Atlanta experience as well as the subsequent scrapes and bruises would indicate otherwise. If this is a problem for one participant, it is a problem! Enough of the "just live with it or stay home" attitude! Then what do you want everyone to do? A person can't get a good warm-up by stopping every 25. If people are crowding the wall and don't give the approaching swimmer a place to either stop or turn, then they become part of the wall for turning. If you have been swimming long enough, that is part of warm-ups. Swimmer don't do it intentionally but when given no other choice to continue their warm-up, they do what is best for them.

I am thinking about doing something like this for our meet in August. The only problem here is the success of lane-speed rules depends on the honesty of the swimmers in the water. Some people think higher of themselves than they should; others should think more highly of themselves than they do. Plus people do some kick during warmup, so it's not going to be perfect. Not just kicking but changing strokes. Actually, my big problem with the speed designation thing is that it doesn't make efficient use of space. In normal warmup, people jump in what they perceive to be the least crowded lane and this keeps all the lanes more or less equally crowded. So everyone is in the same boat. If you have a speed designation, then you are likely to have some lanes very crowded and others less so.

FWIW, I commented more than once that I thought the warm up pool was surprisingly civilized this year. With almost 2,000 swimmers, I expected the worst, but was generally able to get in a decent warm up each day, both in the competition pool and the dive well. I thought Austin was far worse, especially in regard to people hanging on the walls. Obviously, other folks had different experiences, but I didn't experience or observe anything this year that I thought was too out of line.

Just where in my statement did I blame you?? I stated a fact about crowded warm-ups. There are times when a swimmer is trying to warm-up and people crowd the wall, so an incoming swimmer that wants to keep moving doesn't have a place on the wall to turn, so they use what there. I don't condone pulling people under just because someone wants to pass them, diving in into the warm-up pool or using paddles/fins in the warm-up pool. I do support people that want a good warm-up swimming past a person, completing a flip turn on the wall if people won't move(it ain't that hard move or duck down) or doing kicking/drill swims regardless of what everyone else is doing(except in sprint lanes) Yes, I think I do deserve and everyone else in the pool deserves the right to warm-up the way we feel we need to for our races. If that means passing you in the middle of pool, then you get passed. That happens to me at every meet. I start out slow in the warm-up process and people pass me in the lane...doesn't bother me because it is part of the process. If you want to compete, that's great, don't stay home. No one wants you to stay home. Wookie, I agree that you are entitled to your warm up as you like it. It sounds like you are responsible try to respect other swimmers at the same time. All that I am saying is that I don't get the same. I can't swim more than a 25 at a time because I'm intimidated. I don't mind being passed if it's not over the top of me or I'm not shoved into the lane lines. I tried the continuous swim thing that you want, but got hurt in the process. Do you think that one deserves bruises because they are trying to warm up? I don't think so. My point is that I know I tick people off while trying to swim my 25, pull off, hang on to the lane line, wait for a break and do the whole thing all over again. But that's the best I can do. What I'm trying to say is that even at that, it's a dangerous game. Please try to understand that nobody gets the perfect warm up. I'm about to move into the safety of the 65 plus lane, and I must say that though I'm probably faster and stronger than 80 percent of those swimmers, I'd never consider my personal warm up more important than anyone else's safety in that lane. I'll make accomodations or take my chances in another lane. I guess my standards are just too high and I should just shut my mouth and lick my wounds. See you in PR!

You have described my warm up. I am exceedingly cognizant of the fact that I am older, slower and smaller than about 95 percent of those attending Nationals - yet a top ten swimmer in more than three events for each course since I started swimming about 5 years ago, so you're not exactly talking to an inexperienced swimmer. I'm tough enough, but don't expect to be pulled under by the foot so that someone could swim over the top of me, nor shoved into a lane line a body length from the wall because someone couldn't wait for me to pull off at the end of my sprint 25. When I stop, I hang on to the lane line so as to not impede others. I don't know what else to do in your world except to stay home which I will NOT do. I know what you think you deserve, but what makes it so important that people get hurt or are terrified to warm up? I don't think that this is what our sport is all about. Since I have decided to speak out on this subject, I have been accused of being the problem by you and others. That is kind of like blaming the victim of a crime which speaks volumes about the attitudes of fellow swimmers. Finally, I want to go on record that the large majority of swimmers are exceeding respectful of others. In our crowded warm ups, there is generally an attitude that we're all in this together, and people understand that they are sharing a crowded space. It is only a few people who forget their manners that make things dangerous. We're all there for the same reason - we love our sport and want to be the best we can be. "Excuse me" or "I'm sorry" would go a long way. Just where in my statement did I blame you?? I stated a fact about crowded warm-ups. There are times when a swimmer is trying to warm-up and people crowd the wall, so an incoming swimmer that wants to keep moving doesn't have a place on the wall to turn, so they use what there. I don't condone pulling people under just because someone wants to pass them, diving in into the warm-up pool or using paddles/fins in the warm-up pool. I do support people that want a good warm-up swimming past a person, completing a flip turn on the wall if people won't move(it ain't that hard move or duck down) or doing kicking/drill swims regardless of what everyone else is doing(except in sprint lanes) Yes, I think I do deserve and everyone else in the pool deserves the right to warm-up the way we feel we need to for our races. If that means passing you in the middle of pool, then you get passed. That happens to me at every meet. I start out slow in the warm-up process and people pass me in the lane...doesn't bother me because it is part of the process. If you want to compete, that's great, don't stay home. No one wants you to stay home.