first of all, congrats to the meet directors and all the volunteers on a job well done. so organized and efficient!! very impressive. the only thing i wish someone could explain to me is why the usms champ. committee changed the team scoring from large, medium and small team to clumping everyone in the same category. seems extremely unfair to have what i call "real teams" competing against state mega teams. there is no possibility for "real teams" to ever come close to competing against them. if you are going to give team awards at the end of the meet, is there any way you can do it fairly? our team is extremely proud to have gotten as many team members as we did to go to natls. (most of them for the first time), but unfortunately they were very disillusioned (as was i) with the idea that we would be competing against state teams. as one of the coaches i didn't have an explanation. even though we were very proud of our 7th place finish in men's division, and our 12th place in combined, we were only one of a few "real teams" in the top ten. would appreciate responses. maybe even someone from the champ.committee could explain how they felt this scoring system would be more fair to the majority of swimmers. then i can pass it along to my teammates.. i don't want them to be so disillusioned that they lose interest in attending any future natls. thanks
Hi,
Michael, thanks for the vote of confidence. We really are trying to come up with something that many people can support.
As Michael indicated, Pacific's proposal last year missed by four votes. Me, I think it was because there were so many additions, changes and deletions (even though these all improved the proposal) that people were confused about what they were being asked to vote on.
That is why I have tried to lay out the proposal again on this forum, and think there has been a lot of constructive discussion.
While there has also been criticism that this forum represents only a minority of swimmers, as previously noted on this thread, these participants are the ones who are speaking up to provide the thoughtful comments for change.
With regard to the "Splashback" historical perspective, I think that it is helpful but not determinative -- yes I recognize that "those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it", but I also think that we need to address the issues that are current. We need to see if we can come up with a solution that fits current club structures and encourages increased participation in the National Championships.
Various participants have already indicated in this very long thread that Nationals are the showcase meet, and it is discouraging for the smaller teams to compete against regional teams with over a thousand registered swimmers (and not just from Pacific). They have commented on this and have also indicated earlier in the thread, that the chance of placing at Nationals allows them to get more people to come and participate to support their club's efforts.
So, while this may not have the same kind of impact as other topics, I do think that this topic does affect club development (see the recent posts from the New York coach-- why they broke off from the Regional team Metro Club) and participation at Nationals (earlier posts about increased participation when there was a chance at placing at Nationals).
Again, I am looking forward to more constructive comments and discussion.
So far the possible changes that I am hearing to the Pacific Proposal would be:
(1) to include Mens/Womens/Combined scoring (even though it means more awards),
(2) to allow Championship Committee some type of discretion to detemrine who is a "regional Team" (need more info on this, as the proposal already has a requirement of a published list to be posted before Nationals, and a means of disputing a team's designation) and
(3) only defining a "Regional Team" and all other teams would compete in the "Local Team" division.
Leianne
^^^
Hi,
Michael, thanks for the vote of confidence. We really are trying to come up with something that many people can support.
As Michael indicated, Pacific's proposal last year missed by four votes. Me, I think it was because there were so many additions, changes and deletions (even though these all improved the proposal) that people were confused about what they were being asked to vote on.
That is why I have tried to lay out the proposal again on this forum, and think there has been a lot of constructive discussion.
While there has also been criticism that this forum represents only a minority of swimmers, as previously noted on this thread, these participants are the ones who are speaking up to provide the thoughtful comments for change.
With regard to the "Splashback" historical perspective, I think that it is helpful but not determinative -- yes I recognize that "those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it", but I also think that we need to address the issues that are current. We need to see if we can come up with a solution that fits current club structures and encourages increased participation in the National Championships.
Various participants have already indicated in this very long thread that Nationals are the showcase meet, and it is discouraging for the smaller teams to compete against regional teams with over a thousand registered swimmers (and not just from Pacific). They have commented on this and have also indicated earlier in the thread, that the chance of placing at Nationals allows them to get more people to come and participate to support their club's efforts.
So, while this may not have the same kind of impact as other topics, I do think that this topic does affect club development (see the recent posts from the New York coach-- why they broke off from the Regional team Metro Club) and participation at Nationals (earlier posts about increased participation when there was a chance at placing at Nationals).
Again, I am looking forward to more constructive comments and discussion.
So far the possible changes that I am hearing to the Pacific Proposal would be:
(1) to include Mens/Womens/Combined scoring (even though it means more awards),
(2) to allow Championship Committee some type of discretion to detemrine who is a "regional Team" (need more info on this, as the proposal already has a requirement of a published list to be posted before Nationals, and a means of disputing a team's designation) and
(3) only defining a "Regional Team" and all other teams would compete in the "Local Team" division.
Leianne
^^^
