first of all, congrats to the meet directors and all the volunteers on a job well done. so organized and efficient!! very impressive. the only thing i wish someone could explain to me is why the usms champ. committee changed the team scoring from large, medium and small team to clumping everyone in the same category. seems extremely unfair to have what i call "real teams" competing against state mega teams. there is no possibility for "real teams" to ever come close to competing against them. if you are going to give team awards at the end of the meet, is there any way you can do it fairly? our team is extremely proud to have gotten as many team members as we did to go to natls. (most of them for the first time), but unfortunately they were very disillusioned (as was i) with the idea that we would be competing against state teams. as one of the coaches i didn't have an explanation. even though we were very proud of our 7th place finish in men's division, and our 12th place in combined, we were only one of a few "real teams" in the top ten. would appreciate responses. maybe even someone from the champ.committee could explain how they felt this scoring system would be more fair to the majority of swimmers. then i can pass it along to my teammates.. i don't want them to be so disillusioned that they lose interest in attending any future natls. thanks
Leianne, we've reached a point I actually disagree with you on!! LOL.
I don't think that the additional cost of awards constitutes an adequate basis for not presenting awards for Men's and Women's divisions. The banners given as awards are not expensive.
If, and only if, it is really that much of an issue, then I would propose awarding banners 1st-5th place in the Regional team division and 1st-10th in the Local team division for Men, Women, and Combined.
My argument is twofold:
1) When we seperate Regional teams into their own division, you'll notice that there are not all that many Regional teams, only about 20 total (it's just that they take all the top spots, so we notice them more). Therefore, I don't feel it's necessary to present an award to a Regional team for being in the top half of their division.
Point of interest: Virginia Masters was the 5th place Regional team in Austin with 683 points. There were 7 Local teams that finished ahead of them. Michigan Masters was the 10th place Regional team with 312.5 points, and there only seems to be 4 other Regional teams that scored over 100 points. I think that awarding a Regional team banner down to 5th seems sufficient.
2) Within the Local team division, however, there are over 150 teams competing. I don't feel that 1st-5th recognizes enough of these teams for their achievements.
I understand that, generally, most of the teams who would receive a banner for Men's or Women's would also receive one for Combined, and vice versa, so it would seem to make sense to do away with the Men's and Women's divisions. (In Austin, only Masters of South Texas women (9th) and West Hollywood Aquatics men (9th) would be deprived a banner if awards were given only for the Combined team.)
However, assuming the proposed Regional/Local team divisions is passed, there will be more of a discrepancy between how well a men's team versus a women's team fare at Nationals, particularly among Local teams where the gender inequities are not leveled out over an entire state.
For example, Red Tide brought 9 women and no men to Austin and they did exceptionally well, scoring 209 points. This would have put them in 8th place in the Local Team Women's division, but only 20th Combined, given their absence of men. I feel like their women deserve some recognition.
Similarly, West Hollywood Aquatics brought 25 swimmers: 23 men and 2 women. Their men scored 374 points, which would have placed them 6th in the Local Team Men's division. Since West Hollywood is well known to be a predominantly gay team, as well as DC Aquatic Club (bringing 8 men and no women) and other clubs, eliminating the Men's and Women's divisions would have a disproportionate effect on these teams as well as others.
Finally, on a mere traditional argument, Men's and Women's swimming has always existed seperately through high school and NCAA's. That would even satisfy Justice Scalia.
Therefore, it is wrong to eliminate awards for Men's and Women's divisions.
Leianne, we've reached a point I actually disagree with you on!! LOL.
I don't think that the additional cost of awards constitutes an adequate basis for not presenting awards for Men's and Women's divisions. The banners given as awards are not expensive.
If, and only if, it is really that much of an issue, then I would propose awarding banners 1st-5th place in the Regional team division and 1st-10th in the Local team division for Men, Women, and Combined.
My argument is twofold:
1) When we seperate Regional teams into their own division, you'll notice that there are not all that many Regional teams, only about 20 total (it's just that they take all the top spots, so we notice them more). Therefore, I don't feel it's necessary to present an award to a Regional team for being in the top half of their division.
Point of interest: Virginia Masters was the 5th place Regional team in Austin with 683 points. There were 7 Local teams that finished ahead of them. Michigan Masters was the 10th place Regional team with 312.5 points, and there only seems to be 4 other Regional teams that scored over 100 points. I think that awarding a Regional team banner down to 5th seems sufficient.
2) Within the Local team division, however, there are over 150 teams competing. I don't feel that 1st-5th recognizes enough of these teams for their achievements.
I understand that, generally, most of the teams who would receive a banner for Men's or Women's would also receive one for Combined, and vice versa, so it would seem to make sense to do away with the Men's and Women's divisions. (In Austin, only Masters of South Texas women (9th) and West Hollywood Aquatics men (9th) would be deprived a banner if awards were given only for the Combined team.)
However, assuming the proposed Regional/Local team divisions is passed, there will be more of a discrepancy between how well a men's team versus a women's team fare at Nationals, particularly among Local teams where the gender inequities are not leveled out over an entire state.
For example, Red Tide brought 9 women and no men to Austin and they did exceptionally well, scoring 209 points. This would have put them in 8th place in the Local Team Women's division, but only 20th Combined, given their absence of men. I feel like their women deserve some recognition.
Similarly, West Hollywood Aquatics brought 25 swimmers: 23 men and 2 women. Their men scored 374 points, which would have placed them 6th in the Local Team Men's division. Since West Hollywood is well known to be a predominantly gay team, as well as DC Aquatic Club (bringing 8 men and no women) and other clubs, eliminating the Men's and Women's divisions would have a disproportionate effect on these teams as well as others.
Finally, on a mere traditional argument, Men's and Women's swimming has always existed seperately through high school and NCAA's. That would even satisfy Justice Scalia.
Therefore, it is wrong to eliminate awards for Men's and Women's divisions.
