first of all, congrats to the meet directors and all the volunteers on a job well done. so organized and efficient!! very impressive. the only thing i wish someone could explain to me is why the usms champ. committee changed the team scoring from large, medium and small team to clumping everyone in the same category. seems extremely unfair to have what i call "real teams" competing against state mega teams. there is no possibility for "real teams" to ever come close to competing against them. if you are going to give team awards at the end of the meet, is there any way you can do it fairly? our team is extremely proud to have gotten as many team members as we did to go to natls. (most of them for the first time), but unfortunately they were very disillusioned (as was i) with the idea that we would be competing against state teams. as one of the coaches i didn't have an explanation. even though we were very proud of our 7th place finish in men's division, and our 12th place in combined, we were only one of a few "real teams" in the top ten. would appreciate responses. maybe even someone from the champ.committee could explain how they felt this scoring system would be more fair to the majority of swimmers. then i can pass it along to my teammates.. i don't want them to be so disillusioned that they lose interest in attending any future natls. thanks
Like swim4life, I am encouraged by the evolution of this discussion since its inception.
Why should I (or any small team member) encourage more teammates to attend a national meet when we, as a small team, still would have no chance of placing as a team? There is a significant cost for participants at a national meet, and many will not bring home an individual medal, so what incentive is there for small teams to go to the meet at all?
There are many reasons for going to nationals. All the nationals will have great competitive facilities and high standards for the swim meet. Any swimmer there will have a chance to do his best.
You can watch great swims from the oldest age groups to watching Olympians battle it out in the younger age groups.
You will generally compete against swimmers of your own speed and age group. That will bring out the juices to swim harder.
You can meet other swimmers and make friends as we all share a common interest.
Most of the Championship Committee is there, so you can tell them in person what makes a good meet and what should be changed. (also most of the executive committee attends so when you are through battering the championship committee you can hit up the executive committee members - be sure to be a gold medal sponsor).
For example, a team has several swimmers who do not meet NQT standards, but would like to attend nationals. Each enters a maximum of three swims. Rather than counting as two swimmers, they are counted as six swims (or the equivalent of one swimmer entering 6 events). One could argue, that using this method may actually move some teams with large numbers of swimmers DOWN a category, if many participants swim less than the maximum number of individual events. A team bringing 120 swimmers each swimming 2 events = 240 swims, and would be competing against teams with similar numbers of swims, like a team with 40 participants each swimming 6 events.
These two teams are not equal, they are however, equivalent in potential for scoring points. They can be competitive with one another, and others of similar potential. Preventing swimmers from particiapting would not benefit either team, since "individuals" were not used as the determining factor. It may also mean that PNA, WCM, and CMS are all duking it out in the same division, even though one team brought 150 swimmers and another only brought 50.
In the example that you just gave, the team with 120 swimmers will get squashed like a bug by the team that brought 40 swimmers. A team does not score points unless a member finished 10th or higher. If none of your swimmers make NQTs (which is generally the 10 ten time plus 10%) they are not going to make a tenth place finish hence no points (yes you can find events that generally do not have 10 swimmers - the 200 fly comes to mind - and you can recruit swimmers from the 70+ age groups) but in the main groups your 120 swimmers will not score.
Championship committee did a survey a bunch of years ago among the top ten swimmers. The biggest reason of why a top ten swimmer will compete at nationals is location. The closer it is to their home the more likely the swimmer will compete. Thus PNA could get its more elite swimmers to swim and have a good time.
michael
Like swim4life, I am encouraged by the evolution of this discussion since its inception.
Why should I (or any small team member) encourage more teammates to attend a national meet when we, as a small team, still would have no chance of placing as a team? There is a significant cost for participants at a national meet, and many will not bring home an individual medal, so what incentive is there for small teams to go to the meet at all?
There are many reasons for going to nationals. All the nationals will have great competitive facilities and high standards for the swim meet. Any swimmer there will have a chance to do his best.
You can watch great swims from the oldest age groups to watching Olympians battle it out in the younger age groups.
You will generally compete against swimmers of your own speed and age group. That will bring out the juices to swim harder.
You can meet other swimmers and make friends as we all share a common interest.
Most of the Championship Committee is there, so you can tell them in person what makes a good meet and what should be changed. (also most of the executive committee attends so when you are through battering the championship committee you can hit up the executive committee members - be sure to be a gold medal sponsor).
For example, a team has several swimmers who do not meet NQT standards, but would like to attend nationals. Each enters a maximum of three swims. Rather than counting as two swimmers, they are counted as six swims (or the equivalent of one swimmer entering 6 events). One could argue, that using this method may actually move some teams with large numbers of swimmers DOWN a category, if many participants swim less than the maximum number of individual events. A team bringing 120 swimmers each swimming 2 events = 240 swims, and would be competing against teams with similar numbers of swims, like a team with 40 participants each swimming 6 events.
These two teams are not equal, they are however, equivalent in potential for scoring points. They can be competitive with one another, and others of similar potential. Preventing swimmers from particiapting would not benefit either team, since "individuals" were not used as the determining factor. It may also mean that PNA, WCM, and CMS are all duking it out in the same division, even though one team brought 150 swimmers and another only brought 50.
In the example that you just gave, the team with 120 swimmers will get squashed like a bug by the team that brought 40 swimmers. A team does not score points unless a member finished 10th or higher. If none of your swimmers make NQTs (which is generally the 10 ten time plus 10%) they are not going to make a tenth place finish hence no points (yes you can find events that generally do not have 10 swimmers - the 200 fly comes to mind - and you can recruit swimmers from the 70+ age groups) but in the main groups your 120 swimmers will not score.
Championship committee did a survey a bunch of years ago among the top ten swimmers. The biggest reason of why a top ten swimmer will compete at nationals is location. The closer it is to their home the more likely the swimmer will compete. Thus PNA could get its more elite swimmers to swim and have a good time.
michael
