first of all, congrats to the meet directors and all the volunteers on a job well done. so organized and efficient!! very impressive. the only thing i wish someone could explain to me is why the usms champ. committee changed the team scoring from large, medium and small team to clumping everyone in the same category. seems extremely unfair to have what i call "real teams" competing against state mega teams. there is no possibility for "real teams" to ever come close to competing against them. if you are going to give team awards at the end of the meet, is there any way you can do it fairly? our team is extremely proud to have gotten as many team members as we did to go to natls. (most of them for the first time), but unfortunately they were very disillusioned (as was i) with the idea that we would be competing against state teams. as one of the coaches i didn't have an explanation. even though we were very proud of our 7th place finish in men's division, and our 12th place in combined, we were only one of a few "real teams" in the top ten. would appreciate responses. maybe even someone from the champ.committee could explain how they felt this scoring system would be more fair to the majority of swimmers. then i can pass it along to my teammates.. i don't want them to be so disillusioned that they lose interest in attending any future natls. thanks
Below is a list of the top ten scoring teams at the last five SCY Nationals. As you can see the LMSC teams have a significant advantage over the non-LMSC teams. As the LMSC teams take eight of the top ten places in the combined teams scores.
While I voted to change from the Small, Medium and Large teams, after looking at the results, I would rather see the SML come back rather than the system that we have right now. Yes, there is some arbitrariness to it, but it cannot be helped - in any system we chose there will always be some arbitrary number that will make one team in a division that it does not want to be it. It is not completely arbitrary, if one looks at the team numbers, one can see natural breaks and those breaks are where the dividing lines are.
I would suggest that any team that has 40% or more of the total number of the LMSC members is an LMSC team. I could think of other defining issues, does team have central management, how many bank accounts does it have? (more than one operating account - then it should be a super team). Who makes the decision on the hiring and firing of coaches?
While some can argue about small LMSC teams competing against large state teams, that pales in obsticles that a true team has competing against an LMSC team. Of course, I keep thinking that if the game is to be played with the LMSC team, I think of Team Pacific going against Colorado Masters or the Florida LMSC teams. There are many Pacific swimmers who think it would be fun to be on a relay team with members from other current clubs.
Lets look at the results of the past five years and who is doing well:
2007 - Federal Way, Washington
1 Pacific Northwest Aquatics
2 Oregon Masters
3 Colorado Masters
4 Walnut Creek Masters
5 Arizona Masters
6 Team Illinois Masters
7 Wisconsin Masters
8 San Diego Masters
9 The Olympic Club
10 North Carolina Masters
Only two teams were not LMSC Teams: Walnut Creek and The Olympic Club. PNA was hosting the championships.
2006 Coral Springs, Florida
1 Gold Coast Masters
2 Colorado Masters
3 Fort Lauderdale Aquatics
4 Florida Aquatic Combined Team
5 Team Illinois Masters
6 New England Masters
7 Pacific Northwest Aquatics
8 North Carolina Masters
9 Florida Maverick Masters
10 Wisconsin Masters Aquatic Club
Only Two teams were not LMSC Teams: Fort Lauderdale Aquatics and Florida Maverick Masters
2005 Fort Lauderdale, Florida
1 Colorada Masters Swimming
2 Gold Coast Masters
3 Florida Aquatic Combined Team
4 The Olympic Club
5 North Carolina Masters Swimming
6 Illinois Masters
7 Walnut Creek Masters
8 New England Masters
9 Virginia Masters Swim Team
10 Pacific Northwest Aquatic
Again only two teams were not LMSC Teams: Walnut Creek and The Olympic Club - Not bad for traveling all across the United States.
2004 Indianapolis, Indiana
1 Illinois Mastesr
2 Indy Swim Fit
3 Rocky Mountain Masters (Colorado Masters)
4 Walnut Creek Masters
5 OHIO Masters
6 Michigan Masters
7 Swim Kentucky Masters
8 New England Masters
9 North Carolina Masters
10 Woodland Masters Swim Team
Only three teams were not LMSC Teams Indy Swim Team (which was swimming at its home pool), Walnut Creek Masters and Woodland Masters Swim Team
2003 Tempe, Arizona
1 Arizona Masters
2 Rocky Mountain Masters (Colorado Masters)
3 Walnut Creek Masters
4 San Diego Swim Masters
5 The Olympic Club
6 Pacific Northwest Aquatics
7 YMCA Indy Swim Fit
8 Illinois Masters
9 New England Masters
10 Oregon Masters
Only three teams were not LMSC Teams Walnut Creek Masters, The Olympic Club, and Indy Swim Fit.
Congratulation to Kerry O'Brien of Walnut Creek and Scott Williams of The Olympic, who consistantly get swimmers to travel to compete at the national championships - and they do very well!!
Just my $0.02
michael
Below is a list of the top ten scoring teams at the last five SCY Nationals. As you can see the LMSC teams have a significant advantage over the non-LMSC teams. As the LMSC teams take eight of the top ten places in the combined teams scores.
While I voted to change from the Small, Medium and Large teams, after looking at the results, I would rather see the SML come back rather than the system that we have right now. Yes, there is some arbitrariness to it, but it cannot be helped - in any system we chose there will always be some arbitrary number that will make one team in a division that it does not want to be it. It is not completely arbitrary, if one looks at the team numbers, one can see natural breaks and those breaks are where the dividing lines are.
I would suggest that any team that has 40% or more of the total number of the LMSC members is an LMSC team. I could think of other defining issues, does team have central management, how many bank accounts does it have? (more than one operating account - then it should be a super team). Who makes the decision on the hiring and firing of coaches?
While some can argue about small LMSC teams competing against large state teams, that pales in obsticles that a true team has competing against an LMSC team. Of course, I keep thinking that if the game is to be played with the LMSC team, I think of Team Pacific going against Colorado Masters or the Florida LMSC teams. There are many Pacific swimmers who think it would be fun to be on a relay team with members from other current clubs.
Lets look at the results of the past five years and who is doing well:
2007 - Federal Way, Washington
1 Pacific Northwest Aquatics
2 Oregon Masters
3 Colorado Masters
4 Walnut Creek Masters
5 Arizona Masters
6 Team Illinois Masters
7 Wisconsin Masters
8 San Diego Masters
9 The Olympic Club
10 North Carolina Masters
Only two teams were not LMSC Teams: Walnut Creek and The Olympic Club. PNA was hosting the championships.
2006 Coral Springs, Florida
1 Gold Coast Masters
2 Colorado Masters
3 Fort Lauderdale Aquatics
4 Florida Aquatic Combined Team
5 Team Illinois Masters
6 New England Masters
7 Pacific Northwest Aquatics
8 North Carolina Masters
9 Florida Maverick Masters
10 Wisconsin Masters Aquatic Club
Only Two teams were not LMSC Teams: Fort Lauderdale Aquatics and Florida Maverick Masters
2005 Fort Lauderdale, Florida
1 Colorada Masters Swimming
2 Gold Coast Masters
3 Florida Aquatic Combined Team
4 The Olympic Club
5 North Carolina Masters Swimming
6 Illinois Masters
7 Walnut Creek Masters
8 New England Masters
9 Virginia Masters Swim Team
10 Pacific Northwest Aquatic
Again only two teams were not LMSC Teams: Walnut Creek and The Olympic Club - Not bad for traveling all across the United States.
2004 Indianapolis, Indiana
1 Illinois Mastesr
2 Indy Swim Fit
3 Rocky Mountain Masters (Colorado Masters)
4 Walnut Creek Masters
5 OHIO Masters
6 Michigan Masters
7 Swim Kentucky Masters
8 New England Masters
9 North Carolina Masters
10 Woodland Masters Swim Team
Only three teams were not LMSC Teams Indy Swim Team (which was swimming at its home pool), Walnut Creek Masters and Woodland Masters Swim Team
2003 Tempe, Arizona
1 Arizona Masters
2 Rocky Mountain Masters (Colorado Masters)
3 Walnut Creek Masters
4 San Diego Swim Masters
5 The Olympic Club
6 Pacific Northwest Aquatics
7 YMCA Indy Swim Fit
8 Illinois Masters
9 New England Masters
10 Oregon Masters
Only three teams were not LMSC Teams Walnut Creek Masters, The Olympic Club, and Indy Swim Fit.
Congratulation to Kerry O'Brien of Walnut Creek and Scott Williams of The Olympic, who consistantly get swimmers to travel to compete at the national championships - and they do very well!!
Just my $0.02
michael
