on deck check in

The problem with deck seeding (check-in 1-2 hours before the event) is that you don't get a heat sheet. It is very hard to watch friends and team members when you don't know when they are swimming, especially with 2 courses. When we tried checking in by 6 pm the day before, you got a heat sheet, but there were still no shows. For fear of forgetting to check in on time, some team members checked in everyone on their team, so there were still empty lanes. Personally, I prefer a few empty lanes and a heat sheet.

That is what I was talking about. When we run positive check in sheets, we also have to get the heat sheets out prior to the meet starting. It is always a race against the clock to get the scratches done properly, seeded, and everything printed(including lane timer sheets and sheets for coaches and officials). Of course I would hope Masters would not have the same problem as age groupers, in forgetting to check in or being late, and having to come to the computer table to get put back in.

I too attended the Mission Viejo championships. After having suffered through a USMS Nationals with close to event time check-in I was very pleased to be able to have preseeded heats. If this meet had been deck seeded for all events I doubt I'd have bothered to attend (even though this is an age-up year for me). Pre-seeded events result in way less hassle - no lining up, no worry about missing the cut-off, no checking back to see you're corretly seeded, and, best of all, a printed heat sheet to refer to for all kinds of useful information other than what lane am I in. When the events are pre-seeded, one expends significantly less energy wandering around the deck to find out when you're going to swim. The first meet I experienced on deck check-in was the 2001 long course nationals held in Federal Way. What a disaster! Unlike Mission Viejo, Federal Way had a lot of stairs with very few places the heats were posted. I had to be at the pool two to three hours earlier just so I could check in, then wait around for the heats to be posted. All so some male hot shot doesn't have to swim next to an empty lane? No thanks! On deck check-in for shorter events is a bloody nuisance. The current compromise (check-in for distance events only) is working. As other posters have indicated, there will always be empty lanes for many reasons. Why louse up things for everyone else?

I have been to a lot of age group meets. I have run the computer table at a lot of age group meets. I know Master's is not age group, but the age group championships are always preseeded. The regular meets, up to the meet host. Positive check in at a meet is very, very, very hard to juggle and get the meet started on time. And a meet of this magnitude, I would think would be real tough. Although, you could preseed the first 2 events each day, and deck seed the rest. That gives the computer people more time to get the scratches, seeding and printing done.

All so some male hot shot doesn't have to swim next to an empty lane? I am disappointed that we cannot discuss this topic without ascribing pejorative adjectives to others who do not like our position. Phil thinks that the better swimming conditions happen when the lanes are filled up and he is swimming against his competition. I am a middle aged white guy who when I swim think that it is a great meet if I finish in the top half of a Pacific Masters championships or in the top 80 % at a nationals. No one has ever described me as a hot shot (well except for my wife and she was being sarcastic). I, too, believe that a meet believe that seeding the meet either on deck or having the check in the day before in many cases makes for a better meet. If we are talking about a meet that does not have many swimmers in it - for example a nationals that has about 1600 for a scy meet, it does not make much difference. You have open lanes but you also have a meet where there is plenty of recovery time between events for the swimmers. For large meets, those that have over 1900 swimmers, deck seeded even for the sprints is the only way to keep the time line under control. None of the officials and volunteers like to be working at a meet for 12 hours and when there are events where only 3 out of 10 lanes have swimmers in them (yes it does happen) many of the officials believe that their time is being wasted, by a group that does not think enough of the volunteers and officials to keep the time line under control. And think of the swimmers, no one likes swimming at a meet at 7 pm. There is a lot of drop off of swimmers after the sun goes down. I believe that positive check in is the a way to get the meet time line under control. (of course another option to get the time line under control is to tighten up the NQTs - but then we need the meet hosts to make money). michael

I'm okay with the five day format but have to agree with Phil and Mike on their points otherwise. I swam 2 events with both adjacent lanes empty. I noted heats with three contestants that had eight seeded in the program. I also got to watch a heat before one of mine that had one (1) swimmer in it. I realize there would be additional work but with that kind of participation, it's hard to agrue for "pre-seeded" heats as opposed to morning (or night before) check-in.

At Pacific all masters meets are deck seeded, including local 3 day championships that have 800 or so swimmers, each often swimming up to 7 events, plus relays. That is significantly more events a day than in the five-day Mission Viejo meet. There is no trouble meeting the timeline that I have seen, and the lanes are full.

Male is a descriptive adjective of me, and 'hot shot' is a noun phrase -- no pejorative adjective there! I wish I could claim hot shot status; hot shots are the ones that can win their events. Michael speaks well from the standpoint of the officials and volunteers. I speak from the standpoint of a swimmer. I don't travel, spend the money, disrupt my family life, and take days off work to swim in a time trial. I like the competition, and, while it may not be PC in this crowd, I am happier to win with a poor time than lose with a good one. I am always aware of where the person next to me is, but unable to be aware of the person across the pool. Thus, swimming next to someone is more fun than swimming next to an empty lane. I like to think that the meet I am in is significant and worth the sacrifices I make. It is easier to believe that if I am not next to a lane made empty by someone who did not find it important enough to show up. A bad implementation of a good idea is still a bad implementation. Of course there should be plenty of well marked places with the heats posted. I also enjoy walking around to find my heats, especially when on the way to one of my many trips to the restroom. Those get especially frequent at race time! Incidentally, five days is a long time for a meet. If a tighter timeline can make it four days, I think it is a good idea, even if some swimmers are inconvenienced.

As I was the individual who remarked upon the scratch rate at Nats in another thread, I thought I should weigh in on this discussion. I have been to a lot of nationals, both Canadian & American, sc & lc (& one worlds) since 1985, less lately & have been one of those swimmers who loves to grab the heat sheet upon registration & race off to plan out the meet. But...I've come to the view that anything that makes life easier for the hordes of volunteer officials & timers at our meets should be of prime consideration. There have been some good concepts bounced around here, some already in use, but I have faith that the pace of technological progress & innovation will continue to make deck, or late-onset seeding practicable. A couple of small notions occur to me: it has been mentioned that upon occasion people have waited in lineups to checkin each day- why not issue with registration 'positive checkin cards' for each event a swimmer has entered? They (or coach or friend) drop the appropriate card in the clearly labelled 'event-specific drop box', rather than lining up. If that card could be scannable as to event & swimmer registration #, then handling them could be quite straightforward. Also, perhaps we could also cater to those who absolutely, positively do not want to bother with even that inconvenience, They could check a box in the original registration process labelled 'positive check-in declined' & pay, say, twice the fee per event that they would have. Whay do you think?

One thing that was succesful for our age group meet this summer, and we stole the idea from a St Louis team, was to preseed the first two events each day. Then we did positive check in, which closed 45 minutes before the meet started each day. We also had rented a copier, and the minute I had heat sheets ready, they were copying, and I was printing using a laser printer. We were ready to start, and ready to sell heat sheets so everyone had them. Now that was only 400 swimmers, but the concept works for 1600, because that means the first two events are even bigger and more time is given. I was actually a naysayer of this method, because I hated the idea of empty lanes for the first two events, and yes there were some, but after that it was fine.