Colonies Zone SCY Championships - Fairfax VA

...Bottom line is that I don't know if it is sufficient to focus only on preventing this from happening again at future SCY zones, I think there has to be some effort at involving FXCM (and triathletes in general) with masters swimming beyond just paying dues and entry fees. And wookiee is right, it isn't just this club that does that. If you've got creative solutions on how to engage more teams, please do share! It's evident that what's been tried in the last 3.5 years that I've been involved (peripherally, you could argue) hasn't worked to the degree we'd hoped it would. The lengths that the LMSC board has gone to in encouraging new teams to step up and host meets haven't been enough, and I think we're all running out of ideas. Admittedly, part of the problem in our LMSC is the fact that we're one of the largest by membership, and the smallest by far by geography, which leads to too many people in too few pools, especially when you factor in USA-S and high school teams and meets. We have a team that's tried to get pool time to run a new meet, and it's taken them at least 2.5 years to finally make it onto the tentative pool use schedule in my county. And I'm not even 100% sure they've been able to get definite confirmation on their requested date being available. I agree that wookiee is right, but only to a point. They're not the only team that does this, but they really are the only one large enough to have this type of impact. They're also the only ones who have been repeatedly asked to run a meet and not even attempted to try (even with access to a wealth of pools in multiple jurisdictions), and the only ones who were asked by their own head coach, after a similar situation a few years ago, to not use the CZ meet as a time trial meet, to turn around and do it again (with the same "assistant" coach leading the charge, mind you).

I still fail to see what the members of Team Z did that is so wrong here. If their coaches wanted them to swim the 1000/1650, they had to be usms members and pay the meet entry fee. If they are use to triathlons that sell out quickly, maybe that was the thinking in signing-up so fast for the distance events. They wanted to make sure they got in an event they wanted to swim.

I agree that wookiee is right, but only to a point. They're not the only team that does this, but they really are the only one large enough to have this type of impact. They're also the only ones who have been repeatedly asked to run a meet and not even attempted to try (even with access to a wealth of pools in multiple jurisdictions), and the only ones who were asked by their own head coach, after a similar situation a few years ago, to not use the CZ meet as a time trial meet, to turn around and do it again (with the same "assistant" coach leading the charge, mind you). It could certainly lead one to surmise that they don't really give a crap about masters swimming or their fellow masters swimmers. As Penguinfan noted above, unless and until a rule change is made for championship meets, " going swimming" -- no matter who it penalizes and no matter what the adverse effects upon the meet.

I'd think Colonies Zone would be flattered that it has become so popular. It's disappointing that relatively few seem to agree. It's not. The distance events are fixed, so the same number of swimmers attend on Friday. Because of the time trialing blitz, events on Saturday and Sunday will be less popular and the meet as a whole less popular. That's what Chris was referring to above as the negative ripple effect. I'm in favor of Team Z attending meets, including Zones. I'm in favor of Team Z hosting meets. I'm in favor of Team Z doing OW swims. I'm not in favor of them intentionally preventing pool swimmers or any other team from competing in a championship meet when the UMBC meet (or practice time) was available for time trialing.

Chris, If we use the "takers" vs. the "givers" the theme, how many teams really step-up to host a meet? When I look at the Dixie Zone calendar, almost every year the same teams are hosting the same meets. I think most teams are more along the lines of "takers" than "givers" because they probably prefer to go to meets rather than host them for various reason. For several years, I have tried to get our team to host a meet. We can run it either short course yards or meters(all with fixed walls Jim Thornton) but no one on the team is interested in hosting the meet because of the work. Teams like yours, muppets, jeff roddin's, are special because they do give and give and give to the usms community. But I can't hold it against a team for getting their swimmers to enter a meet for one day or even one event.

Seems like a move to requiring a qualifying time is inevitable here. This is how other important, popular events (NY/Boston Marathon, Kona Ironman, etc.) keep numbers down and let the best participate. Almost every Central Park 5K and 10K I've been to has segregated the elite runners; otherwise they wouldn't show up. And if Team Z couldn't get into Colonies Zones, it would be that much more likely to sponsor its own event. As of now, it's getting free milk from the cow. I'd think Colonies Zone would be flattered that it has become so popular. It's disappointing that relatively few seem to agree.

I post this as a swimmer AND triathlete because I am both. I have to say I am disappointed in all the comments made by "masters swimmers" about triathletes. I was a swimmer before I was a triathlete and have just recently returned to swimming. I was welcomed into the triathlon community with only a background in swimming. It was never suggested I have to have a minimum bike or run time to participate in an event that would sell out. Events are open for everyone to register at the same time, just like CZ. That is fair. Period. Maybe it is more important to the triathletes than the "masters swimmers" which we (triathletes registered for CZ) all are, to get registered early. The suggestions of "proof of entry times" and limiting entry to the fastest times is garbage too. I have been out of competitive swimming for almost 15 years and registered as a masters swimmer two months ago. I have no entry times but will likely place top three in both my distance events for my age group. Should I not be allowed to enter because I can't prove what my times might be? Being slow does not make a "triathlete" less serious about swimming. It is possible to be serious about more than one sport. Being slow doesn't mean you aren't serious. Some of these "bad people" swim on my masters team. They don't swim in my lane but most days, doing the workout was a lot harder for them than for me. You may have all forgotten your early years, but swimming a mile is nothing to take lightly and a lot of hard work has to be put in for anyone to even consider it. I believe hard work should be rewarded with opportunity, an opportunity to swim in a meet. You could ask "why this meet?" My question is why not? Entry was open to everyone at the same time. If it was important enough to you, you could have secured an entry. Maybe some swimmers were always elitist jerks and I just didn't know it. The last time I was involved in competitive swimming, there were very few forums like this (for anything) for people to express who they really are. I look forward to competing at CZ this year, against "masters swimmers" and "triathletes" alike. Good luck to triathletes from DC Tri, FeXY, Team Z and any other triathlon clubs or teams associated with a masters program. I welcome you to MY sport as you welcomed me to yours.

I still fail to see what the members of Team Z did that is so wrong here. I don't think team Z did anything wrong, however if Mason gets the colonies bid again, then shame on us (the royal us) if we don't do anything to keep the event from selling out in 2 hours again next year. As I stated before, I'd lay out q times, they could be quite easy to make, but some q time for entry into the race during the first say three weeks, then it is open to anyone.

That's my point though. There is a good chance that the actions of TeamZ will decrease participation by displacing people who would have entered more events and swum on all three days. That is very true. Last year I swam 12 events at this meet including a distance race, and in 2011 11 events including a distance race. I really liked this meet and I was planning to sign up this year but after getting shut out of both distance events overnight I'm not going.

I post this as a swimmer AND triathlete because I am both. I have to say I am disappointed in all the comments made by "masters swimmers" about triathletes. I was a swimmer before I was a triathlete and have just recently returned to swimming. I was welcomed into the triathlon community with only a background in swimming. It was never suggested I have to have a minimum bike or run time to participate in an event that would sell out. Events are open for everyone to register at the same time, just like CZ. That is fair. Period. Maybe it is more important to the triathletes than the "masters swimmers" which we (triathletes registered for CZ) all are, to get registered early. The suggestions of "proof of entry times" and limiting entry to the fastest times is garbage too. I have been out of competitive swimming for almost 15 years and registered as a masters swimmer two months ago. I have no entry times but will likely place top three in both my distance events for my age group. Should I not be allowed to enter because I can't prove what my times might be? Being slow does not make a "triathlete" less serious about swimming. It is possible to be serious about more than one sport. Being slow doesn't mean you aren't serious. Some of these "bad people" swim on my masters team. They don't swim in my lane but most days, doing the workout was a lot harder for them than for me. You may have all forgotten your early years, but swimming a mile is nothing to take lightly and a lot of hard work has to be put in for anyone to even consider it. I believe hard work should be rewarded with opportunity, an opportunity to swim in a meet. You could ask "why this meet?" My question is why not? Entry was open to everyone at the same time. If it was important enough to you, you could have secured an entry. Maybe some swimmers were always elitist jerks and I just didn't know it. The last time I was involved in competitive swimming, there were very few forums like this (for anything) for people to express who they really are. I look forward to competing at CZ this year, against "masters swimmers" and "triathletes" alike. Good luck to triathletes from DC Tri, FeXY, Team Z and any other triathlon clubs or teams associated with a masters program. I welcome you to MY sport as you welcomed me to yours. How is it elitist to have time standards at a championship meet?