2003 NE SCY Championships

Why they don't race in Northern or Southern California as much. I have my theories. For one many swimmers left the state in the early 1990's and went to other states. Also, Calif has the highest number of foreign born residents. While the children of immirgants are involved with sports, its harder to get their parents involved since they come from a different culture. Southern California has a very large hispanic population that comes more from rural areas in Mexico where swimming is not that important compared to boxing or soccer. Those in Northen and Southern California that make up the upper-middle class that are involved with masters prefer to do it for exercise or triathons or open swims.

I think that racing is less prevalent in CA compared to NE because the leadership in CA puts a lower priority on racing. This is understandable if you consider that Pacific Masters has 10,000 members and almost no one wants to run or participate in a meet with 4,000 people. With less than 2,000 members this is not a problem in NE right now--but if our SCY meet continues to grow we will have to reconsider once the participation rate goes over 1,000 people.

I agree that they don't emphasis competing in the meets. But if you adjust populaton pacific masters doesn't really have has much membership than other areas. Their in an where the population is 8 million. So, 10,000 while a good number isn't as high if you take it out of 8 million people.According to the US Cenus, California particularly the Southern Part lost 1 million people to other states. And gain 1 million from international places especially Mexico and Southeast Asia. The immirgrant factor probably effects Southern California more than most places when it comes to sports. Spma is most popular in more upper-middle class areas like the beach and Southern Orange County, least popular in heavier minority areas that have recent immirgants. The same can be said for pacific masters, Santa Clara and more upscale areas of San Francisco seem to have a lot of master involvment, while other places don't.

Also, Calif has the highest number of foreign born residents. It also has the largest number of native born residents and the largest number of residents. While the children of immirgants are involved with sports, its harder to get their parents involved since they come from a different culture. It may depend on where the parents are from. Pacific Swimming (the local LSC) has a very heavy Asian poplulation. There are many kids whose parents come from China, Viet Nam and the Philipines who competitively swim. As a guess there are fewer Latino kids swimming and there are very few Black kids swimming. I would also guess that there are far more Asian kids swimming (whose parents are immigrants) than Black kids (whose parents are native born Americans). As you said swimming is heavily to middle class and upper middle class. But if you adjust populaton pacific masters doesn't really have has much membership than other areas. Their in an where the population is 8 million. So, 10,000 while a good number isn't as high if you take it out of 8 million people You are right 10,000 out of 8 million is not all that many and the LMSC is trying to grow. Lets see Arizona poplulation: 5 million; Arizona LMSC membership: 822. The same can be said for pacific masters, Santa Clara and more upscale areas of San Francisco seem to have a lot of master involvment, while other places don't. You seem to be making the point that the immigrant factor makes quite a difference in the number of Masters swimmers. If you look at Santa Clara county (a county that has a high number of Pacific Masters Swimmers), you will see that it is just over 50% caucasian and a little more than 25% Asian. It is also a county that has a very high base of immigrants. I would suggest that Santa Clara county does not fit your immigrant model of swimmers. Also Santa Clara county has many of the competitive swimmers in Pac Masters. If you look at the demographics of Masters swimmers, it is heavy to middle and upper middle class. I think that is more of a determining factor than an immigrant factor. Just my $0.02 michael

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That's good Michael that you are gettting asian parents involved. But as you stated hispanic are less in the sport. I went to the short course meters in Arizona last October and for a state that has 25 percent hispanic about 2 pecent of the master swimmers were hispanic. Also, SPMA which has a much higher hispanic population is effective more by immirgation which it comes to swimming. Hispanics are less involved than asian children and adults. This doesn't only effect swimming. Figure Skating the most expensive sport there has a high number of top level asian skaters in Southern Callifornia. On the other hand, hispanics which in LA make up about 46 percent of the population and 32 percent of the population of Orange County are less representive in the sport. Hispanics because of income and cultural taste are not as likely to do other sports like swimming or figure skating and even diving-a sport that the Mexican country is really good at than asians. Blacks have been underrepresentive in both children and adult swimming for some time. And in places like Arizona and Orange County California blacks make up a small number of the population. I don't feel that 10,000 is a small number I'm just saying you are in an area with a large population. Both SPMA and Metropolian with populations over 14 million are a lot more underrepresentive in masters swimming.

The topic of "swimming demographics" should probably be a separate thread (if necessary) and doesn't really have anything to do with 2003 NE SCY Championship. In my mind, the overwhelming question is not how ethnically represenative is Masters (that's a function of things that have nothing at all to do with Masters) but why isn't USMS at 100,000+ members and what will it take to get us there ASAP.

Sounds like the age group kids conversations have slipped into the masters forum... -Rick

Pacific Masters does have a lot of swimmers and they have succeded even though California is no longer white suburban as much as it was 30 years ago. They just don't push their swimmers into the pool competitons like some of the other locals.

You are going to lose a lot of us if you start the touchy-feely, political correctness garbage. You know, "since 25% of our U.S. population is Eastern Slobovian, we must strive to ensure that OUR organization falls into that parameter". Did you ever consider that identifying and tracking and targeting certain Races is , in reality, Racist to the core. How about we just sign people up and quit looking at their skin color or place of birth. I would want any organization to which I belong , to want me for me, not my ability to make them feel good by being a badge of percentage diversity. Put 'em up........ I feel strongly about this ! Bert