How to add weights to poolwork?

RE: How to add weights to poolwork?

Speedo — Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:46:19 GMT

My question is, would a move to the Lesak type of workout plan allow me to continue weight training while swimming? My new goal for 2010 is "2 miles continuous freestyle in 45 minutes" Would the Lezak workout be tailored to long distance (for a beginner) as well as sprinting? IMO, the Lezak program will not allow you to swim any more comfortably. Swimming following weights is not supposed to feel good, and the Lezak program is no different in that respect. WRT using the Lezak plan for distance, you could probably change (increase) the reps and get a benefit for distance work. Although it seems to target races of 50m, I did the plan as described and my best race last season was a 200. YMMV.

RE: How to add weights to poolwork?

mattson — Fri, 19 Feb 2010 01:54:47 GMT

Adding weights to poolwork? If someone offers to give you cement overshoes and toss you in a lake, just say no!

RE: How to add weights to poolwork?

Former Member — Thu, 07 Jan 2010 08:38:19 GMT

I'm 33 yo and a got into swimming since September this year. I started out with this plan (www.ruthkazez.com/.../ZeroTo1mile.html) with 3x week workouts to work up to a 1 mile continuous freestyle and finally made that goal by the end of the year. Although I was having trouble keeping doing both upper body weight training and swimming with the same couple of days. Before swimming this year, my weight training has usually been pretty intense, not pursuing really heavy goals, but consisting of about 10 repsx3set for an exercise. My regimen focused on Chest&Back (3 varying bench presses x 9 sets and 6 pullup sets) or Lower body work outs (Squats, Dead Lifts, Lunges all x 4 sets).....all exercise at 10 reps a set. Trying to swim after my usual upper body workouts was pretty disappointing in keeping up with reaching my goal since I was pretty spent the day after, so I pretty much stopped upper body all together, but kept lower body about once a week. My diet plan is pretty good from what I'm seeing suggested on the forums, well balanced, but probably could be getting a few more carbs, and I take a meal replacement protein shake after workouts or pool work to help recover. My question is, would a move to the Lesak type of workout plan allow me to continue weight training while swimming? My new goal for 2010 is "2 miles continuous freestyle in 45 minutes" Would the Lezak workout be tailored to long distance (for a beginner) as well as sprinting? Thanks

RE: How to add weights to poolwork?

Former Member — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 15:59:15 GMT

Thanks for starting this thread. I am also looking to start lifting to supplement my swimming, but I still feel like I am "getting back into shape" mode. Where do I start? What are some good programs? I feel strong, but I know that lifting will make me a faster swimmer. First thing to decide is if you like a plan or if you like ADD. If you are an ADD person, talk to The Fortress or Jazz Hands. If you do well with plans, and you don't have much experience in the weight room, I suggest starting here. stronglifts.com/.../ What I do is based on the 5x5 plan, and it is a very good beginner to intermediate plan. Since you are constantly incrementing weight, you can start very light, learn good technique, and still be lifting heavy quickly (a few weeks). If you already know you way around the gym, Lezak's plan is very popular. I personally think it would be hard to start with this plan if you don't already lift, because you have no idea where to start weight wise. The Lezak plan will also take more time than the 5x5 plan initially. That aside, several people on this board who are fast have used this plan and were happy with the results, Speedo being one example. I also learned that Chris Stevenson's plan is not the Lezak plan, but very comparable. The best plan will be the plan you stick with :) 5x5 has was the first plan I was able to stick with long term (it might be 3 years now) so that is why I am such a big fan.

RE: How to add weights to poolwork?

The Fortress — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 12:12:13 GMT

First thing to decide is if you like a plan or if you like ADD. If you are an ADD person, talk to The Fortress or Jazz Hands. If you do well with plans, and you don't have much experience in the weight room, I suggest starting here. stronglifts.com/.../ What I do is based on the 5x5 plan, and it is a very good beginner to intermediate plan. Since you are constantly incrementing weight, you can start very light, learn good technique, and still be lifting heavy quickly (a few weeks). If you already know you way around the gym, Lezak's plan is very popular. I personally think it would be hard to start with this plan if you don't already lift, because you have no idea where to start weight wise. The Lezak plan will also take more time than the 5x5 plan initially. That aside, several people on this board who are fast have used this plan and were happy with the results, Speedo being one example. I also learned that Chris Stevenson's plan is not the Lezak plan, but very comparable. The best plan will be the plan you stick with :) 5x5 has was the first plan I was able to stick with long term (it might be 3 years now) so that is why I am such a big fan. Thanks Q, I may browse that myself! I've been pretty darn hard core about sticking with the ADD lifting plan. :D The Lezak plan does seem very time consuming b/c there are so many exercises.

RE: How to add weights to poolwork?

Speedo — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 11:27:18 GMT

Katie, here's a link to the weight plan I referenced above: www.bodybuilding.com/.../jasonlezak1.htm I followed it between December and April of last year in preparation for Clovis SCY Nationals in May. I liked it because it's sort of a cookbook and at this stage I'm better at being told what to do. I just don't have that much recent experience in weight training- I've been lurking around on the blogs (e.g Fort's, Qbrain's, Jazz Hand's) but they are at a different knowledge level and I tend to get confused, so when my teammate Fortress posted this plan as an FYI (she does not follow it herself as far as I can tell), it was perfect. Although it's 'for sprinters,' my best result at Clovis was in the 200 Free (I swam the 50-100-200 Free and 100 Fly). I'm working under the theory that you can't do a fast 200 if you don't have a fast 100, and you can't do a fast 100 if you don't have a fast 50. So I like practicing sprints (weights and in the pool) for focus events 200 and under. I'm sure there are other 'canned' weight routines out there as well, though.

RE: How to add weights to poolwork?

Former Member — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 11:26:32 GMT

Q, Now weren't you the one that told me that you just needed to make sure to get in one pushing exercise, one pulling exercise, one back, and one legs each session? Sorta. Pulling is back, but in general yes. If you are doing full body, that is all you need. Lots of people do more, but I am not one of them. Here is my logic. If you do bench press and incline flys, you will only be able to do one or the other really hard. Why do them both in the same workout. Some people would rather have varying stress (via many different exercises) on the same muscle in one workout, rather than work one exercise to the max. Which builds strength faster, multiple exercises at submaximal levels or one exercise at max? I think the latter, but there are plenty of strong people doing the former. What I really think is the latter works faster, and I want to get strong as fast as possible to make up for all those sloth years in between the last time I was swimming fast and now. If you remember back when I gave you that advice, I was trying to convince you that lifting didn't have to be long, grueling and boring. I still think Lezak's plan, and similar ones, are too long for most people to be able to stick with. I wouldn't have been able to stick with it if it took an hour off the bat and got harder. When I started 5x5, it took like 15 minutes. When something takes 15 minutes, and all you have to do is walk up stairs to do it, it is really hard to justify not doing it. Jazz does a lot of experimentation. Most of what he posts, I can't argue with. Eventually, you have to experiment. The first experiment a beginner is going to do if finding what keeps them coming back for more, and if that fails, they are done. When I said that you and Jazz were the ones to ask about ADD, I meant I could not give advice to someone who benefits from a non structured plan. Both you and Jazz don't follow a written plan, and for someone who would be bored with 5x5 or Lezak, either of you might be able to give some guidance. I have my list of things to do and I follow it strictly. You workout consistently, but I don't know how you decide what exercises, how many reps, what weight, etc. I don't know what guides you, so I couldn't advise someone who would benefit from that style. I will stop calling you ADD if there is a better descriptor for how you come up with your weight program. I don't mean to be derogatory.

RE: How to add weights to poolwork?

KEWebb18 — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 07:06:31 GMT

Thanks everyone for all of the great info. I know my way around the weight room, but I just didn't know where to start. I like having a plan because I don't want to think things up myself. I really appreciate everyone's input!

RE: How to add weights to poolwork?

Former Member — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 06:21:15 GMT

But it doesn't take that long because you are supersetting (doing 2 exercises back to back without resting). Lezak starts with 36 sets of 12 reps and increases to 25 reps. Speedo, how long does this take? I would guess right at 60 minutes if you are doing it right. The 5x5 A day is 19 sets of 5 reps. B day is less. Takes me about 40 minutes when I am doing max weight on squats, or about 25-30 minutes when I drop down to light weight, like after tapering.

RE: How to add weights to poolwork?

The Fortress — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 06:20:37 GMT

I cut out leg and calf presses and added this single exercise. It's just an experiment- leg and calf presses just seem un-plyometric compared to what I assume they are supposed to prepare you for (starts/turns). Do you do anything to help w/starts/turns on dryland? Yes, I don't bother with calf presses, leg extensions or leg curls either. You can do squats, lunges, air squat-jumps, box jumps (forward and lateral), burpees, etc. I've also done an exercise where you do 4 alternating forward lunges and then a broad jump. I'm going to do more plyos and explosive lifting Jazz style in my next go round of training. I've pretty much been focused on mostly traditional lifting and drylands the last year+ as I'm still a bit of a newbie.

RE: How to add weights to poolwork?

Speedo — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 06:09:16 GMT

LOL- I'm sure there' a proper term for "ups and downs," but I don't know it. I used to do them in the shallow end of the pool. It's when you stand and clasp your hands behind your neck, stagger your feet- one 2ft in front of the other and bend your knees at 90 degrees. The you just jump and alternate which leg is forward. It's much harder without water, but I suppose it's along the lines of plyometrics. I cut out leg and calf presses and added this single exercise. It's just an experiment- leg and calf presses just seem un-plyometric compared to what I asume they are supposed to prepare you for (starts/turns). Do you do anything to help w/starts/turns on dryland?

RE: How to add weights to poolwork?

Former Member — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 06:05:22 GMT

Thanks Q, I may browse that myself! I've been pretty darn hard core about sticking with the ADD lifting plan. :D The Lezak plan does seem very time consuming b/c there are so many exercises. Doh! Busted! I meant to define the ADD lifting for Katie. The ADD lifting means you do different things each workout, versus a planned workout, where you are doing the same things each workout. I have no idea how people figure out what to do if they follow the ADD non-plan. Strong lifts has lots of good lifting information. Mehdi does a good job of find videos of people doing correct technique on youtube. There is a lot of bad technique on youtube, so be careful. Any video by Mark Rippetoe are good. He literally wrote the book on proper lifting technique.

RE: How to add weights to poolwork?

The Fortress — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 05:23:51 GMT

It took me about an hour, although I don't have access to all of the machines on his list. I still did 12 different exercises, but I substituted the stuff I couldn't do with core work that takes a bit longer with the extra reps. So I'm not doing the plan in exacting detail, but I'm applying the supersets, the periodization, and the exercises I have access to. I just did my first routine of this cycle, and I've cut down to 10 exercises- it took me about 50min. I'm also doing 1 warmup round and 2 full rounds for this cycle (i.e 1 warmup and 2x12 reps instead of 3x12 reps). I've also shortened the whole cycle by a number of weeks to coincide with our GMU Sprint meet in October. I just removed one week from each period except for the middle sprint lifting period where I removed two weeks. I'll plan on starting the full routine again in Dec. I've attached a screengrab of the spreadsheet I created to track my progress. As you can see, I like color-coding. Very nice chart! It looks more manageable charted. What are "ups and downs"? Q, Now weren't you the one that told me that you just needed to make sure to get in one pushing exercise, one pulling exercise, one back, and one legs each session? Jazz does much of what Lezak does (except for the endurance phase), but doesn't periodize. Instead, he theorizes that you can/should mix strength and speed lifting throughout the season.

RE: How to add weights to poolwork?

Speedo — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 03:44:07 GMT

RE: How to add weights to poolwork?

pwolf66 — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 01:30:28 GMT

The Lezak plan does seem very time consuming b/c there are so many exercises. But it doesn't take that long because you are supersetting (doing 2 exercises back to back without resting).

RE: How to add weights to poolwork?

Former Member — Mon, 13 Jul 2009 12:57:25 GMT

I'm doing static stretching now, but I realize now that I'm stretching to loosen up more than to increase range of motion, and it seems that dynamic stretching would be better for loosening up? I like the idea of going a bit lighter (or alternatively, fewer days/same weight?) for this cycle. I may try that as well and see where I am at the end compared to last cycle. Spreadsheet dorkdom, here I come. That is the theory. I have a routine that isn't really dynamic, but isn't really static, and since I have been doing it, I have had fewer problems and the problems have had shorter durations. So I wouldn't say dump your favorite statics. I think your spreadsheet dorkdom works very well.

RE: How to add weights to poolwork?

KEWebb18 — Mon, 13 Jul 2009 09:18:45 GMT

RE: How to add weights to poolwork?

Former Member — Mon, 13 Jul 2009 07:28:58 GMT

Starting with the endurance phase, you should be fine. If you are going to get two full cycles in before you next target meet, maybe go lighter than you normally would with this phase. You are coming off a rather short break and you were in top shape before hand, so it won't take long to adjust, it will just feel like a long time. You might want to look into form rollers, tennis balls, dynamic stretching or yoga to help you stay loose while you adjust to regular workouts again.

RE: How to add weights to poolwork?

Speedo — Mon, 13 Jul 2009 05:07:45 GMT

Thanks for the advice. I just googled dynamic stretching and I'll give it a try in addition to the RC stuff. I'm doing static stretching now, but I realize now that I'm stretching to loosen up more than to increase range of motion, and it seems that dynamic stretching would be better for loosening up? I like the idea of going a bit lighter (or alternatively, fewer days/same weight?) for this cycle. I may try that as well and see where I am at the end compared to last cycle. Spreadsheet dorkdom, here I come.

RE: How to add weights to poolwork?

Kevin in MD — Mon, 13 Jul 2009 03:14:29 GMT

My question is; Would jumping back into weights at the same time I'm getting back in the pool be safe? By safe, I mean with respect to reducing the risk of tendonitis/shoulder/etc problems? If you add the shoulder rehab exercises published in the coaches section of the usa swimming website along with the other strength work, it would help reduce the risk of injuries.