Do you Swim non stop or do intervals and drills ?

RE: Do you Swim non stop or do intervals and drills ?

Former Member — Mon, 12 Mar 2007 15:28:09 GMT

There is a lot more to the story than exercise and unfortunately Okinawa is becoming a great case study to how important diet is, the Okinawian diet is being Westernized there are changes already in the mortality. But I point to that as a population that does no interval training and seems to enjoy great health. Interval training note today part 4 Interval training works of course to help you swim faster and there seems to be multiple health benefits such as increased metabolic rate, greater fat burning, increases in cardiovascular fitness. The good news is that it may not take that much interval training to realize a lot of these benefits. By this I mean like many biological systems it is not additional in nature, twice the interval training won't produce twice the effect. In fact many experts (I use that term loosely) feel that twice a week will give you most of the benefits. www.fitcommerce.com/.../ViewAnnouncement.aspx

RE: Do you Swim non stop or do intervals and drills ?

Former Member — Mon, 12 Mar 2007 15:16:02 GMT

Some of us have longevity some don't. Fitness and training does not have anything to do with it. My father lived to 93 years of age and remained active during this long life by continuing to work and have goals. Every year his goal was to drive from Hamilton Ontario to Vancouver and visit with me for a few months then he would drive to California to visit my brothers then back to Vancouver and stay with us until the snow was about to start. 3000 miles to BC, 1500 to California then return another 4500 miles. While he visited he was very active sightseeing. Long swims short swims really do not matter, just be active.

RE: Do you Swim non stop or do intervals and drills ?

Former Member — Mon, 12 Mar 2007 14:56:07 GMT

The reason i subscribed to this thread several years ago was to find out what people did in their workouts, to get ideas for my own. Doing just what my coach tells me is fine but i like to hear from others. The recent addition of the discussion from a medical pov is interesting, though. It's quite interesting that lately people are taking the question "do you swim non stop or do intervals and drills" to mean "which is better." As tecumseh pointed out, there are benefits from both. What i was trying to say earlier and was interpreted as angry (and i guess i was annoyed) was that it seems beside the point since we all have different bodies and different inclinations. There are people who live long healthy lives who do not feel particularly like exercising and look at those who enjoy it as crazy. The fact that someone enjoys LSD swims doesn't mean everyone will. And, enjoyment of life is a huge factor in health, well-being, and longevity. Knowing something about people from Okinawa, I think there is more to the story than what they do physically. There is also an indoctrination of a religious philosophy into young children that has a dramatic effect on their approach to reality, affecting their enjoyment of life and ability to deal with stress. No one knows whether, if they were to have to shift to another culture at some point in their lives, health problems would result.

RE: Do you Swim non stop or do intervals and drills ?

Former Member — Sun, 11 Mar 2007 13:55:41 GMT

This is in response to Lindsay NB who I believe is a moderator. I am NOT a moderator. I am however interested in the relationship between swimming and health both personally and as a member of the health and fitness committee of Masters Swimming Canada. I have to say that it is harder than one might think to get beyond "swimming is exercise, exercise is good for you". I think this thread died out long enough ago that it has been resurrected more than hijacked. I think one of the best arguments for swimming intervals is that you are more likely to improve your speed, and that most people find improvement to be motivating and are therefore more likely to keep up a program where they feel they are making progress. Of course different people are motivated by different things, and the same person can be motivated by different things at different times. Sometimes I have enjoyed just getting in the water and going LSD. It can be a very zen/meditative experience. I would say that several of the times I have gotten out of the pool with a profound sense of wellness have been after LSD swims. I don't know if I would want to do it every day but some would I am sure. It would be interesting to have more information about HOW exercise affects your health as I guess that might provide clues as to what approach to exercise would produce the most benefit. With all the talk about diabetes in the news these days it would be good to have some info about how exercise relates to this disease. I would require more information about the Okinawa study before I would leap to any conclusions, there are so many variables there.

RE: Do you Swim non stop or do intervals and drills ?

Former Member — Sun, 11 Mar 2007 07:03:25 GMT

The point of the thread seemed to me do you swim non stop or intervals with a discussion of which is better? Many posters have talked about growth hormone and organs I am trying to point out the scientific basis of the benefits of continous swimming vs intervals. This is in response to Lindsay NB who I believe is a moderator. Today's topic is Okinawa. A group of scientists asked a simple question years ago: where do people age the best, who are the healthiest people in the world. They came to the conclusion it was Okinawa and they then conducted a scientific study to determine why. An excellent book came out of this project which I highly recommend. They do some karate and some dance and lots of walking which is basicly long slow distance, they obviously do no interval training. Thus chalk one up for continous swmming today.

RE: Do you Swim non stop or do intervals and drills ?

Former Member — Sat, 10 Mar 2007 13:58:10 GMT

i'm just gonna go ahead and say this at the risk of offending.... but it seems to me that the original point of this thread has completely disappeared and the good dr tecumseh seems to have turned this thread/poll into a lecture series on exercise physiology or somesuch... am i incorrect to suspect this should be in its own thread? the information being presented is excellent... but seems it should be standing on its own, not buried in a thread about "do you swim non-stop or do intervals and drills?" i think you've gone a tad off topic, tecumseh.... if i am wrong, i will go back to my corner and keep my peace. be, jim

RE: Do you Swim non stop or do intervals and drills ?

Former Member — Sat, 10 Mar 2007 07:11:13 GMT

Exercise is not without a cost to the body in generation of free radicals and oxidative stress. There is a lot of experimental evidence and piles of anecdotal evidence that you can "break a body down" lower the immune system and damage the body with an overdose of exercise. How much is too much. Probably quite a bit, the National Runners Study showed a continued benefit in health to runners with increasing mileage until the 80K a week mark then it was unclear. The examples cited by people like Dr. Weil of people's health suffering are extreme example like Ironman athletes. There is a bit of political correctness with mainstream medicine coming up with a prescription for exercise....30 to 45 minutes a day. But the evidence does not really support this number more is better to a point where that point is is hard to determine.forums.usms.org/.../dedhorse.gif It does seem logical that adding some LSD (long slow distance) allows one to add health benefits without stressing the body too much though it might not do too much to help one's times.

RE: Do you Swim non stop or do intervals and drills ?

Former Member — Fri, 09 Mar 2007 17:25:22 GMT

The best workout is the one you do, I mean if you never make it to the pool that is not a good workout. At times it can be a little off putting because some of the posters are such good swimmers and swimming obviously takes up much of their personal identity. There is this obese guy who swims in the pool where I swim and he is there every day I am there and he works out easy for over an hour and I think many of these posters would sneer at him I take my hat off to him. Just do it. We all suck compared to Michael Phelps that is not the point. Which brings me to the long reply on intervals vs continous swimming, point one is just do it. That is obvious but the most important point if after a stressful day at the office you want to chill and swim long slow distance go for it.

RE: Do you Swim non stop or do intervals and drills ?

Former Member — Fri, 09 Mar 2007 17:08:06 GMT

In trying to come up with an answer to which is a "better" way to swim from a scientific point of view we need to address what our goals are. Some posters seem to view masters swimming as kind of like age group swimming for old folks, I do not share this view. To me the greatest Masters swim would be to be under a minute SCY in the 100 free on one's 80th birthday. Soooo if we are looking at workouts from a long term health particularly cardiac health point of view what do studies show? Interestingly in the National Runners Health Study a suggestion comes that high intensity training say interval training and lower intensity training such as LSD may be doing different things even to the cardiac system. The high intensity runners had a greater drop in blood pressure the higher mileage lower intensity runners had a greater elevation in HDLs.

RE: Do you Swim non stop or do intervals and drills ?

Former Member — Fri, 09 Mar 2007 14:52:39 GMT

I agree with you I was trying to give a 10 part answer to what is the best workout looking at the scientiific data and the first part which is really obvious is the best work out is the one you do. I know this sounds silly and super obvious but the fact is still the vast majority of Americans don't exercise. So you obviously need to pick a workout which will work for you. I also think a really high level of achievement in a sport is almost a disincentive to continue it lifelong. So rule one: no studies cited is the Nike rule. just do it. I will get to rule #2 later

RE: Do you Swim non stop or do intervals and drills ?

Former Member — Fri, 09 Mar 2007 07:23:17 GMT

uhhhh... doc, did you happen to catch my post just a few paragraphs that way ^ ? be, jim

RE: Do you Swim non stop or do intervals and drills ?

Former Member — Thu, 08 Mar 2007 17:41:14 GMT

dang! teach me to make a post a reply.... i responded to the poll, and agreed (to some extent) with the doc.... next thing i know... tension all about.... 1) is it really important which athlete or group of athletes is most intelligent? (it is not how smart you are, it is how you are smart.) 2) a person who walks around the block gains more than the individual who sits on the couch. conclusion... any exercise is better than none. 3) some grow, some atrophy. some live, some die having never lived. 4) too much energy expended on the beliefs of others may be a good indicator (i suspect) of where one's focus lies. if too much of one's focus is on others, it leaves little focus for that which is within one's self. be, jim

RE: Do you Swim non stop or do intervals and drills ?

Former Member — Thu, 08 Mar 2007 15:04:19 GMT

I like a Non stop swim. Although it does make me go slow, but I have found it makes me sort of lazy. Just say iam going to swim 3-4 miles , I tell my self relax. I have plenty of time. But if I train to do speed, I do much less laps. But since I just love to swim, I rather do longer swims. dom in AZ.:snore: :shakeshead:

RE: Do you Swim non stop or do intervals and drills ?

Former Member — Thu, 08 Mar 2007 14:58:06 GMT

I think the more interesting and practical question is if you have limited amount of time is it better to swim lower yardage and do interval training or higher yardage and swim non stop? And if yes to yardage where is the cutoff? My two cents worth is when pressed for time continuous swimming is hard to beat and through in fartlek and you have some of the benefits of interval training also.

RE: Do you Swim non stop or do intervals and drills ?

Former Member — Thu, 08 Mar 2007 08:10:14 GMT

The book Swimming Fastest has a good review of much of the research as it pertains to exercise physiology and swimming and I would highly recommend it for this. He cites many references and one of the things I took away is when you are swimming a set you should be asking yourself what are you trying to accomplish. If you are trying to accomplish aerobic conditioning then continous swimming can achieve this quite well. If on the other hand you are trying to increase your muscles buffering ability then your really need to be doing interval training. The question of non stop vs intervals is again complicated and I would be leary of some posters who have a simple answer.

RE: Do you Swim non stop or do intervals and drills ?

Former Member — Thu, 08 Mar 2007 06:19:53 GMT

Sometime in the last year there was a wave of articles in the popular press based on some study that seemed to show that brief periods of more strenuous exercise produced better health benefits than longer periods of continuous less strenuous exercise. I don't know the details. It would be great if someone put together an article on the pros and cons of various approaches to swim training from a health perspective and put it up on the USMS web site... That's a big order though, it seems it is very difficult to nail down information like that.

RE: Do you Swim non stop or do intervals and drills ?

Former Member — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 14:29:02 GMT

Jim I agree with you. :bow: That's why I prefer Triathlons because I can get more variety in my workouts, plus I feel in better overall shape than when I just ran. Will I ever make it to the top of the podium, maybe when I'm 90 and the only one in my age group. Like you do care...no. I out to have fun, fellowship, and physical activity.

RE: Do you Swim non stop or do intervals and drills ?

Former Member — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 10:36:12 GMT

Ann, I agree 100%, people who say interval training is the only way to go......for you maybe.

RE: Do you Swim non stop or do intervals and drills ?

Former Member — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 09:17:28 GMT

There's always someone who likes to tell people to stop doing something...eating butter, watching TV, wearing mini skirts, calling them on the phone every 20 minutes...Did you just look for a thread where people are doing something you disapprove of, to come on and tell them to stop? Why does it matter why people do interval training? I like to improve my swimming skills because it increases my ease and enriches my experience in working my body within the water. Using my muscles and lungs in this way is a great feeling. And, as for intelligence, the brain does respond to change. Repetition, while it increases myelination and therefore ability to trust oneself in an activity, also causes the brain to use less "intelligence" than it would if it had to respond to new stimuli. New receptor sites are constantly appearing in the brain, waiting for new information to then be "myelinated." In that sense the brain is a muscle that must be worked with new information in order to stay strong and intelligent. Speaking of chess, it is assumed that this is in part why chess is associated with exceptionally brilliant minds -- because the possibilities of the game are (as far as we know) endless, and therefore require one to draw on all of one's analytical resources to succeed in each game. Why shouldn't we apply that to swimming?

RE: Do you Swim non stop or do intervals and drills ?

Former Member — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 08:41:10 GMT

I agree with much of what people have said about interval training and how you need it to improve times/performance. But as far as cardiac fitness in terms of long term aerobic activity, preventing declines and not dying of heart attacks or congestive heart disease etc.....this is very unclear. For long term cardiac training perhaps it is best to put your heart in zone say 75% of maximum cardiac output and keep it there for a certain time interval and increases above this do not actually help. I think it is important to remember that interval training and noninterval training are not mutually exclusive one can easily do both in one workout. The chess team...it's funny in the state I live in there are all these rules to prevent abuses by the boys basketball and football programs and all these rules apply to the chess team and quiz bowl teams as well.

RE: Do you Swim non stop or do intervals and drills ?

Former Member — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 07:14:54 GMT

The chess team are indeed a smart group of students. As far as being athletic? I'll ponder that one. Respectfully, Miles

RE: Do you Swim non stop or do intervals and drills ?

Former Member — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 07:11:56 GMT

:2cents: In all exercise/athletic endeavors, you have to vary your training. If you did the same thing every day, you would improve as your body adapted and became more efficient. Then, you'd plateau. Your body grows as a reaction to new stresses. All things in moderation...to include extremes.

RE: Do you Swim non stop or do intervals and drills ?

Former Member — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 07:01:38 GMT

Having read a lot of scientific literature on working out I must say there are some statements not supported by fact, "Your body really only gets better when you vary things" This is just wrong and defies common sense...you mean if I take someone who is totally out of shape and have him swim a mile a day at a steady rate he will show no improvement in conditioning? To have this statement followed by one stating how swimmers are the smarter group of athletes I found mildly amusing.....my money is on the chess team.

RE: Do you Swim non stop or do intervals and drills ?

Former Member — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 06:26:12 GMT

interesting thread.... a lot of interesting assumptions abound.... another perspective (with your kind indulgence)... i am incli....oops... let me first say that virtually of my swimming is long, slow distance... now, where was i? oh... i am inclined to agree with the middle aged MD (tecumseh)... for me, swimming is not my primary athletic endeavor. running is. i run a minimum of four times a week... a minimum of 40 minutes per run... i run at 75 to 85 per cent of my Maximum Heart Rate. I push myself hard when i run... the swimming is more like an active vacation for me... at this time, i don't intend to compete with swimming, but i do intend to keep swimming until i can't.... swimming is sooooo relaxing and i still feel as though i have had a workout after one to two miles of free... will i qual for olympics.. nope... do i care... nope... will i stay healthy? maybe... will i enjoy life? yup! sometimes, i wonder if we all don't get just a tad bit tooooooo tied up in the activity and end up missing the joy of the activity.... i probably fell off topic, huh?

RE: Do you Swim non stop or do intervals and drills ?

Former Member — Sat, 03 Mar 2007 16:26:54 GMT

Have followed this thread with interest but I think one needs to back up first and ask the question: Why am I working out in the first place? None of us is going to win the Olympics and for many people it is cardiac fitness and general well being. Also for many of us there are unfortunately time pressures on our workouts. I think too many of the workouts I see posted forget about these facts. Perhaps I am showing my bias I am an middle aged MD and I put cardiac health ahead of times. So IMHO a half hour of ones workout time should be devoted to aerobic working outs at say 70% max heart rate. This can be continous swim of sets of 200s or 500s without too much rest. The workouts I see posted that do not take this approack IMHO are shortchanging the cardiac workout which should be the #1 priority for most of us.