Trans girls/biological males competing against females

RE: Trans girls/biological males competing against females

Angie Griffin — Thu, 30 Oct 2025 21:06:36 GMT

A must-read for anyone still pretending this fiasco is about ‘inclusion.’ It’s about integrity, and USMS leadership seems allergic to it. Remember when they chose to stand behind one individual instead of the many women their policy betrayed? Bravo!!!

The Scandal of Ana Caldas, and the Case for Sex Screening in Female Athletics

RE: Trans girls/biological males competing against females

AGZNG — Sun, 24 Aug 2025 14:22:24 GMT

CAZ33, I am shocked and horrified at your use of homophobic slurs towards a fellow USMS swimmer, let alone another human being. That's absolutely unacceptable. Have you no shame?

RE: Trans girls/biological males competing against females

CAZ33 — Sun, 24 Aug 2025 11:43:28 GMT

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RE: Trans girls/biological males competing against females

sarah tyler — Sun, 20 Jul 2025 16:37:59 GMT

Trans athletes need to be included but not at the expense of female athletes. I don't understand how transwomen, given they feel more fulfilled being female don't seem to understand how that would affect female athletes. Folks make choices and choices always have consequences.

RE: Trans girls/biological males competing against females

Elaine Krugman — Tue, 10 Jun 2025 17:37:13 GMT

I'm jumping in late on this, because I just returned to the U.S. after six weeks in Europe. I have been reading through the comments on this thread, and I just read your article, which I thought was excellent. To date, yours is the best I have read on the subject, because you provided the facts to support your case. I had no idea USMS and World Aquatics had such a difference in their policies. I agree with you that USMS should change their policy to be consistent with World Aquatics, and I signed your petition.

RE: Trans girls/biological males competing against females

Karl_S — Thu, 05 Jun 2025 16:58:32 GMT

Erik: Are you quoting from a peer-reviewed study here, (perhaps a meta-study)? The text sounds like such. If so, please provide the citation.

RE: Trans girls/biological males competing against females

Erik Hochstein — Tue, 03 Jun 2025 12:33:45 GMT

Results Twenty-four studies were identified and reviewed. Transwomen experienced significant decreases in all parameters measured, with different time courses noted. After 4 months of hormone therapy, transwomen have Hgb/HCT levels equivalent to those of cisgender women. After 12 months of hormone therapy, significant decreases in measures of strength, LBM and muscle area are observed. The effects of longer duration therapy (36 months) in eliciting further decrements in these measures are unclear due to paucity of data. Notwithstanding, values for strength, LBM and muscle area in transwomen remain above those of cisgender women, even after 36 months of hormone therapy.

RE: Trans girls/biological males competing against females

Erik Hochstein — Tue, 03 Jun 2025 04:47:27 GMT

Well - hard to dissect and generalize all "comments" - so yes we should look at the facts - and you do not seem to know the facts.... this quote is simply not true and it is the core of the problem !!! "the many transgender individuals who have received or are receiving timely gender-affirming medical care, and consequently will not have an advantage over cisgender competitors" -- that is the core of the issue and it simply is not supported by evidence. The advantage of transgender athletes is by far larger than the "advantage" doping used to have for the "east" and I have that expertise.

RE: Trans girls/biological males competing against females

AGZNG — Mon, 02 Jun 2025 01:57:31 GMT

One of several problems with an "open division" is that many trans individuals are stealth, and it's not OK to force any swimmers to out themselves, especially if they underwent TIMELY gender-affirming medical care and therefore do not have an advantage over cisgender swimmers.

RE: Trans girls/biological males competing against females

AGZNG — Mon, 02 Jun 2025 01:53:04 GMT

Wow. Many USMS swimmers, including me, have loved ones and friends who are transgender, and/or are LGBTQ+ themselves, and some of these comments are ignorant and hurtful for us to see. I thought masters swimming and USMS events were supposed to be welcoming, inclusive, supportive, and FUN. As a member of another marginalized group myself, this makes me feel like I would be discriminated against and excluded too.

I don't know what the solution is here, but we can certainly have an intelligent, INFORMED discussion without using hurtful, transphobic language. Even better, we can leave it up to the experts who actually have the knowledge and expertise to determine best policies and practices that also take into account the many transgender individuals who have received or are receiving timely gender-affirming medical care, and consequently will not have an advantage over cisgender competitors, as well as stealth (meaning not out) transgender athletes.

If any transgender swimmers are reading this thread, I am sorry for the hurtful comments posted here by others, but please know I'd be happy to swim with you anytime and otherwise support you, so feel free to connect. I'd much rather swim with transgender swimmers than transphobic swimmers.

Happy Pride Month!

RE: Trans girls/biological males competing against females

0ARU3 — Sun, 11 May 2025 22:28:14 GMT

Not sure who you're addressing. To be clear, my hope is that USMS creates an Open Division for transgender swimmers to protect the integrity of women's competition.

RE: Trans girls/biological males competing against females

Erik Hochstein — Sun, 11 May 2025 21:17:26 GMT

I thought the issue was that there should NOT be a combined competition - why would USMS not follow the same rules as FINA that you quoted - I think we should have all be able to swim - ALWAYS - just the times for transgender athletes in results should be in a different category - just like FINA suggested.

RE: Trans girls/biological males competing against females

0ARU3 — Sun, 11 May 2025 19:25:45 GMT

It's not narrow minded to care about integrity and fair competition. USMS can be accessible to all with an open division for transgender swimmers.

RE: Trans girls/biological males competing against females

0ARU3 — Sun, 11 May 2025 18:58:05 GMT

An open category satisfies your standards. Let women compete against women.

RE: Trans girls/biological males competing against females

swimfastatlanta — Sun, 11 May 2025 16:37:55 GMT

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RE: Trans girls/biological males competing against females

swimfastatlanta — Sun, 11 May 2025 16:34:25 GMT

U.S. Masters Swimming (USMS) has built a community that celebrates swimming for life—welcoming people of all ages, abilities, and backgrounds. We’re proud to be part of that. But as the sport evolves, so too must our policies.

In 2022, World Aquatics (formerly FINA) introduced a balanced transgender policy: it preserves fairness in women’s competition by limiting eligibility to athletes who transitioned before male puberty, while committing to the creation of an “open category” where all athletes—including transgender and non-binary swimmers—can compete at the elite level. (FINA Inclusion Policy)

RE: Trans girls/biological males competing against females

swimfastatlanta — Sun, 11 May 2025 15:15:13 GMT

Last time I checked, masters swimming is a voluntary organized sport. How many masters swimmers here are on a USMS athletic scholarship, heading to the olympics, or individually sponsored by corporations like TYR, Speedo, Nike? USMS is open to EVERYONE so if you have a problem swimming with the less than .0005% USMS transgender identified population, may I highly suggest you find an organization that celebrates narrow minded beliefs. Otherwise, do something useful and volunteer. USMS has a Diversity & Inclusion Committee, become part of the solution!

RE: Trans girls/biological males competing against females

Chris Stevenson — Sun, 11 May 2025 13:49:21 GMT

Yikes, this is what happens when one clicks a link out of idle curiosity.

What is truly at stake here? Does someone else’s performance change your time? Does the color of a medal really change your self-worth?

”Level playing field” is a total myth. Swim against the clock using competition to spur your efforts. Enjoy a beer together after. That’s masters at its best.

RE: Trans girls/biological males competing against females

Kyle Deery — Fri, 09 May 2025 15:45:09 GMT

USMS is monitoring media reports, comments on these forums, and responding to member inquiries on the allegations regarding the eligibility of one of our members. We felt it might be helpful to provide updates here to ensure those on this thread are aware of the steps we are taking.

We have also created a 2025 Spring Nationals Eligibility Review Updates thread. All future updates from USMS will be posted here.

Over the past week, USMS has received several formal eligibility review requests. In keeping with our published policy, the eligibility review panel was convened late last week to gather and assess the facts. Those with standing who have requested an eligibility review have been notified and will receive updates directly from the panel as appropriate. The panel will make a final determination based on the evidence presented. Speculation or commentary outside the review will not be part of the decision.

Many members have contacted us with questions and suggestions about our transgender eligibility policy. After the eligibility review is complete, USMS leadership and relevant committees will take time to reflect on member input and other details that emerge from the process to determine whether updates to the policy are appropriate and in line with USMS’s mission and values.

We ask for your patience as this process continues, and we thank you for being part of a community that values thoughtful and respectful dialogue, integrity, and the shared love of swimming.

RE: Trans girls/biological males competing against females

ally98003 — Thu, 08 May 2025 20:46:42 GMT

So how is it handled if someone is declared female at birth but then is found to not have XX chromosomes or high testosterone levels? Do they get excluded or does it revert to the declared at birth gender?

RE: Trans girls/biological males competing against females

ally98003 — Thu, 08 May 2025 20:42:26 GMT

So here are a few questions that I have if we were to adopt a "women's only" and an "open" category. First, will we require proof of XX chromosomes and testosterone levels to be in the women's category? The last Olympics showed us that just because someone is declared female at birth and does nothing to change their gender, they may still be found to not have XX chromosomes or typical testosterone levels. In a case like that, shouldn't they also be in the open category, instead of women? Then if the women's only catagory requires proof, then those not wishing to prove that we are women, could also swim in the open category? This could actually be an advantage to those of us that do not place in the women's events at nationals and larger meets. Speaking for myself, I would prefer to swim in an open category, rather than women's if given a choice.

RE: Trans girls/biological males competing against females

Allen Stark — Thu, 08 May 2025 19:59:18 GMT

That is an amazing article. Thank you for posting.

RE: Trans girls/biological males competing against females

ourswimmer — Thu, 08 May 2025 18:17:07 GMT

For any effort to categorize people, you have to consider both what traits should define the categories and how to police the boundaries. I disagree that the best answers to either of those issues are obvious for sex categorization within USMS competition. Every barrier we put up to participation will discourage people from volunteering to organize events and from participating in them, not least because those barriers will increase costs and hassles for everyone.

It's long, but this article from December 2023 describes a lot of the science (as much as science currently knows) and the trade-offs. I encourage anyone who cares about women in sports to read it.

community.usms.org/.../Who-Gets-to-Play-in-Women_1920_s-Leagues_5F00_-_5F00_-The-New-Yorker.pdf

RE: Trans girls/biological males competing against females

Allen Stark — Thu, 08 May 2025 15:44:19 GMT

I see Angie’s position as pro fairness, I see your position as simply anti-trans and I cannot agree with it.

RE: Trans girls/biological males competing against females

02UJF — Thu, 08 May 2025 15:39:58 GMT

There should be NO men in women's sports. NOT the World Aquatics rules. NOT before or after or during puberty. Born male, always male. Same for female. No drugs, surgery, or fantasy or wishful thinking changes that. Putting anyone on dangerous drugs for the rest of their life is irresponsible. And USADA and everyone looking at banned substances needs to expand the definition of performance enhancement to include drug therapy designed to suppress puberty or enhance the development of opposite sex characteristics as a form of drug cheating when used to compete in the opposite sex category.