Should USMS be called USMS?

RE: Should USMS be called USMS?

Rob Copeland — Wed, 19 Sep 2018 07:58:32 GMT

Since it is an age-group centric organization...maybe it should be called U.S. Age Group Swimming.. U-SAGS?

RE: Should USMS be called USMS?

ForceDJ — Tue, 18 Sep 2018 08:53:52 GMT

Since it is an age-group centric organization...maybe it should be called U.S. Age Group Swimming.. Dan

RE: Should USMS be called USMS?

Former Member — Sun, 09 Sep 2018 15:52:51 GMT

For the moment, I'm trying the "Fall Fitness Challenge" and using those workouts. Super helpful! I feel much more purposeful now, on top of improving my strength and endurance.

RE: Should USMS be called USMS?

Redbird Alum — Fri, 07 Sep 2018 01:10:33 GMT

.... I'm hoping to maybe give them a try starting in their January session. :) Go get'em Badger! People get better when they swim with people they perceive to be better!

RE: Should USMS be called USMS?

Former Member — Tue, 04 Sep 2018 15:01:15 GMT

So Badger... Have you found somewhere, yet? As for the 50m pool: not exactly. (as in, yes, I know where they are but no, they are not accessible to me in terms of cost) As for a masters group: Lots of them around here! The group at Hanscom looks pretty friendly to newbies. But I don't think my fitness is even at the 'slow lane' level just yet. :( (Also, as a newly-minted paramedic I work odd hours, so I kind of squish my pool-time in where I can.) However, I'm hoping to maybe give them a try starting in their January session. :)

RE: Should USMS be called USMS?

Former Member — Tue, 04 Sep 2018 12:28:07 GMT

Is the word Masters is intimidating, what about using the word Mature? United States Mature Swimming! We could keep the USMS acronym, and nobody is likely to confuse (in this context) the word Mature with "mastery" or "elitism." If anything, maturity suggests a certain level of barnacle encrustation that I suspect lots of my swimming comrades can identify with. I think it *can* be intimidating to people, but the onus is on clubs and groups (with the parent organization's help) to advertise themselves as however non-intimidating they want to be. If I recall, there's a couple of groups I've perused whose pages make it clear that they tend to attract a faster group, and they may not be the best for beginners. Just like other adult rec sports - some pick-ups and leagues are better suited to the novice or the casual weekender, and some are more geared for the ex-olympians/pros/whatever. It's all about what's around and being able to say 'hey, we might be the workout group for you, but look, you can check on USMS.org and find some other ones.') By the same token, it's fun to have a particular identity and an image to be proud of. People look for ways to belong.

RE: Should USMS be called USMS?

Redbird Alum — Tue, 04 Sep 2018 10:21:50 GMT

.... If I recall, there's a couple of groups I've perused whose pages make it clear that they tend to attract a faster group, and they may not be the best for beginners. Just like other adult rec sports - some pick-ups and leagues are better suited to the novice or the casual weekender, and some are more geared for the ex-olympians/pros/whatever. .... So Badger... Have you found somewhere, yet?

RE: Should USMS be called USMS?

Gdavis — Tue, 04 Sep 2018 07:57:02 GMT

Is the word Masters is intimidating, what about using the word Mature? United States Mature Swimming! We could keep the USMS acronym, and nobody is likely to confuse (in this context) the word Mature with "mastery" or "elitism." If anything, maturity suggests a certain level of barnacle encrustation that I suspect lots of my swimming comrades can identify with. I'm happy with the masters label which I think most people understand connotes older swimmers, ie not college or age group. That said I'd also be happy with a re-branding that works for our existing membership as well as is more inclusive so as not to deter or intimidate all the types of swimmer that we actually welcome into the organization. I would explore thinking along the lines of labels like "Lifetime Swimmers" or similar epithets that don't connote elitism, and are inclusive to all adult demographics. We already have an ageing membership demographic and I would like to think that we appeal as much to the 20 somethings as to our senior citizens. (I am, like Jim, barnacle encrusted, but I'm not ready to just be in the AARS just yet ;) )

RE: Should USMS be called USMS?

Former Member — Mon, 03 Sep 2018 10:14:17 GMT

Well said. If USMS was to merge with USA-S we would probably see: 1) membership fees go up to USA-S levels, 2) USMS.org website and this forum go away, 3) our LMSC's folded under LSC and disbanded, 4) the number of USMS clubs shrink due to USA-S club and coach requirements, 5) more opportunities for open meets but fewer Masters meets. I'm inclined to agree - it's sort of like this in hockey (though I don't think there's ever been a separate adult amateur governing body) - a vast majority of the effort and cashflow is invested in a very small subset of players (elite and generally male). On the other hand, for some of us, "Masters Swimming" does sound a bit intimidating, especially for those of us who've never swum on a team or with a group, or for folks who've never swum at all. Conversely, for the subset that's aged out of USA-S and collegiate swimming, it might seem to them like a bunch of old fogeys splashing around and thus not especially interesting to join. (Or maybe there's folks who, after years of competitive swimming, just feel burnt out and need a break!) But all of those are things that an certainly be mitigated with outreach - there's nothing at all wrong with the name- just make it clear that it's not *just* for the elite, the ex-elite, the silver-haired, the whatever-people-think-masters-means. And make it clear it exists at all - at least where I am, it's not like you go to a pool and there's a sign up saying something like "Do you like swimming? Do you like other people? Are you over 18? Then try Masters' swimming! "

RE: Should USMS be called USMS?

jim thornton — Mon, 03 Sep 2018 10:09:52 GMT

RE: Should USMS be called USMS?

orca1946 — Sat, 01 Sep 2018 11:59:38 GMT

I think ,seeing above replies, that USMS should keep on keepin' on as is.

RE: Should USMS be called USMS?

Former Member — Fri, 31 Aug 2018 12:25:42 GMT

I'm happy with the current name since being a Master seems appropriate to my age and ability. :) Some of the other suggestions such as Adult don't work well in my case because anyone who knows me knows it's hard to find any trace of an adult in me. Lastly, having an independent organization seems best. Affiliations and working more closely with other swim organizations seems always to be a good thing but trying to put so many under one umbrella usually ensures some are going to get very wet.

RE: Should USMS be called USMS?

Kurt Dickson — Fri, 31 Aug 2018 12:21:36 GMT

RE: Should USMS be called USMS?

Rob Copeland — Thu, 30 Aug 2018 05:18:06 GMT

Our National Office has an open line of communication with USA-S, but the opportunities for working together would likely never extend to the point of merging. USA-S has three stated core objectives: Build the base, Promote the sport, Achieve competitive success. Ultimately, they're focused on winning medals at the Olympics.Well said. If USMS was to merge with USA-S we would probably see: 1) membership fees go up to USA-S levels, 2) USMS.org website and this forum go away, 3) our LMSC's folded under LSC and disbanded, 4) the number of USMS clubs shrink due to USA-S club and coach requirements, 5) more opportunities for open meets but fewer Masters meets.

RE: Should USMS be called USMS?

gdanner — Thu, 30 Aug 2018 04:59:10 GMT

Back to Jim's point regarding merging with USAS, would a discussion/meeting with USAS be appropriate? I agree the merger could open up more opportunities with regard to meets, and may upset a few "record holders", but would it also require a realignment of rules, regulations, and/or requirements for teams, coaches and meet referees? Our National Office has an open line of communication with USA-S, but the opportunities for working together would likely never extend to the point of merging. USA-S has three stated core objectives: Build the base, Promote the sport, Achieve competitive success. Ultimately, they're focused on winning medals at the Olympics. Although many of us enjoy the competitive aspects of swimming, the majority of USMS members do not compete in pool or OW events. USMS attempts to serve both our fitness and competitive swimmers, so you can see how merging with a purely competitive organization doesn't align with our strategic plan. I still have my USA-S membership and swim in a few meets each year. Anyone can register and most of the meets don't have age restrictions.

RE: Should USMS be called USMS?

Redbird Alum — Mon, 27 Aug 2018 04:04:42 GMT

RE: Should USMS be called USMS?

__steve__ — Thu, 16 Aug 2018 07:08:44 GMT

I live in the United of States, I am currently a Master Sergeant, I also swim. Therefore USMS fits me fine, and I don’t see a promotion happening either.

RE: Should USMS be called USMS?

SwimTotoSwim — Wed, 25 Jul 2018 04:53:45 GMT

There has been discussion over the years about the term "Masters" confusing or scaring away potential members. If you replace "Masters" with "Adult" the abbreviation become USAS, which can get confused with United States Aquatics Sports, so you'd need to shuffle to "Adult Swimming in United States" ASUS. It might be something that could be discussed at the upcoming 2018 USMS convention as legislation, if the deadlines have not passed to propose changes. I think a number of good points have been made that USMS is better off govern itself than being combine with other swimming governing bodies. We are already affiliated with all the aquatics sports through USAS.

RE: Should USMS be called USMS?

Gdavis — Wed, 25 Jul 2018 01:57:25 GMT

Jim, I concur 100% that USMS and USA Swimming should merge. There are tremendous financial reasons to merge and swimmers around the country make find better opportunities for coached practices. Registration/Membership/times/competition would all become better. Personally, I am not a fan of ALTS. Think it is better left to other organizations. It is just not a big enough market to spend as much time on as we do. I agree it won't happen - mostly because the masters people are unwilling to relinquish control - even if it for their own good. I'm originally from the UK, where, like in most of the rest of the world, masters is subsumed within a governing body that encompasses all of the FINA aquatic sports (swimming, water polo, diving, synchro, masters..). Based on that experience I would never choose to relinquish control of masters swimming to a larger pan-swimming, or pan-aquatics national governing body. The UK governing body regards masters as a nuisance or a way to make money. That attitude is also pervasive at FINA and the other international federations. IMHO, the best way to ensure maximum focus on the interests of masters swimmers (quality competition, quality coaching, etc.) is to retain our independence, as we would inevitably become a low priority or even just an afterthought within a bigger governing body. It would also have the potential to dilute our representation internationally. I suggest that you read this while considering the pros and cons of a merger with USAS. www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/.../

RE: Should USMS be called USMS?

Windrath — Thu, 17 May 2018 09:49:54 GMT

RE: Should USMS be called USMS?

Patrick W. Brundage — Thu, 17 May 2018 09:18:29 GMT

RE: Should USMS be called USMS?

jim thornton — Wed, 16 May 2018 01:39:45 GMT

This is probably unrealistic, but perhaps USMS should officially fuse with USA Swimming so that swimming in our country just has one umbrella organization with age groups starting at 6 and under and going to the current 100-104 (and perhaps someday soon, 105-109)? There would be no distinctions made between youth swimmers, college swimmers, elite post college swimmers, early adult swimmers, middle adult swimmers, geriatric swimmers, etc. -- just one continuous sport that accepts swimmers in their childhoods and continues to provide a place to compete until the End? I think this would encourage a lot of swimmers post high school (who either can't swim in college or don't want to) to stick with the sport. The only folks that would be "hurt" by this, I suspect, would be masters world record holders in some of the young adult age groups. Many of the world records here would be supplanted by Phelps, Ledecky, Dressel, etc. But when you think about it, how much pleasure can one take in holding a Masters World Record while knowing someone the same age has killed your time but that it doesn't count because it wasn't swum at an official masters meet? Example: the masters WR in the 18 - 24 age group for the 50 free is 50 Free Josh Schneider 04-28-12 19.36 Josh would clearly lose this to Dressel (not to mention innumerable other 20-something sprinters). Not till around age 40 or 45, I suspect, would the current masters world records stand up against that actual world records, but after that, I don't think it would be much of a problem. Dara Torres set the Masters WR for that 50 LCM free Dara G Torres 07-06-08 24.25 That same year, in the Olympics, she set the American record at 24.07. This probably represents the smallest gap between a Masters WR and a non-Masters American record. Dara was 42 during that Olympics.

RE: Should USMS be called USMS?

orca1946 — Tue, 15 May 2018 10:39:23 GMT

USA = United Swimmers Association

RE: Should USMS be called USMS?

Elaine Krugman — Fri, 11 May 2018 12:38:57 GMT

How about U.S. Adult Swimming Association (USASA) or something similar? I agree that "Masters" implies that its for old people or for people who have achieved mastery (defined as "great skill or technique"). Ok, now that wouldn't be too bad. After all, once a person turns 18 years old, we are considered adults by law. (Of course, reality is an entirely different story!)

RE: Should USMS be called USMS?

CKswimminginDC — Fri, 11 May 2018 10:29:40 GMT