Pool Training and Technique - Recent Threads

RE: Age 65 - 4 days straight ok?

Allen Stark — Thu, 12 Feb 2026 20:08:38 GMT

I think there is so much individuality to have a rule. If your heart rate returns to baseline in about 4 hr and your sleep is fine it is probably not deleterious. In terms of strengthening conditioning, again, there are too many variables to be sure, but do you find the workouts challenging?

I will say, if your goal is to swim faster (or really since you are 65 decrease the rate of swimming slower) you should do some race pace work.

I found for myself, at about 73 I could only do 3 race pace workouts/wk without breaking down.

Age 65 - 4 days straight ok?

1R08V — Thu, 12 Feb 2026 17:26:29 GMT

I'm 65: Is working out 4 days in a row (~3000, mostly moderately intense) ok? Even if times on repeats get slower on day 3&4, in long term does this strengthen conditioning? Or is it any way deleterious. Facts as well as opinions welcome! Tx.

Tibialis Anterior Pain During 100/100s

SHSS3 — Thu, 08 Jan 2026 21:44:46 GMT

Last Sunday I swam the 100/100 by lap 62 my TA was seizing - what to do please as my endurance was strong and on. What’s the trick to reversing the seize please? I’d be grateful for simple solution I have overlooked so that I can get all 100 next year— Thanks!

100 Free - SPEED IS MOST IMPORTANT

Erik Hochstein — Wed, 19 Mar 2025 17:26:51 GMT

Saw this email about training plans and "mine" was missing ...

USMS showed a great "traditional" swimming way of training - but this teaches you very little speed. If you give this training plan to the most elite 400 dash runners - swimming to running distance is simple 4x - if you give that to the best 400 runners in the world they would just laugh at you - 10-12K workouts for them running a 400 dash - NO WAY !!!

www.usms.org/.../six-week-swim-training-plans

SPEED focus for doing 100 Free - not for "new swimmers" this is for people who have been swimming for a few years - rule number one - never count total yardage EVER - only count how many yards you do at 1) real max effort (max effort needs lots of rest before - not easy swimming - just rest) yards at 2) 100 race pace ... if you want to break 60 seconds in 100 - you will probably go out in 28.5 and come back in 31.low ... hopefully - race pace means 25s at 15.5 level - and 3) you can count any 25s or 50s if you can do them at 16.5 or faster -

3 day plan - all warm ups are 15-20 min long - doesn't matter how many yards - sculling while floating is my most important warm up drill - and I don't move much doing it ... do make sure you can 2-4 bursts of explosive speed - means 10-15 yards.

ONE - 3-4 rounds - 15 yards all out on 3 min / 25 all out on 5 min (best if you can do a turn after the 25 but learning a finish is also important !!

TWO - 2-3 rounds of the above - and 1-2 ALL-OUT /// next set just 1-2 of these 8-10 min rest): 50 at 100 pace - real 100 pace - 10 seconds rest and all out 25 -- if you can do more than 2 of these you are going too slow

THREE - goal is to learn 100 pace without total exhaustion - build over the weeks - 6-10x 25 on 2 min at 100 pace / 2-5 x50 at 100 pace (not all out ideally but will be close to it) 5min

Get starts and super-speed turns into the workout as much as possible - DO TIME CHECK IF YOUR underwater kick doing fly is actually faster - mine isn't ...

ALL easy swims - pulling - kicking and so on - either take a shower or do it after .... not gonna make much difference.

RE: 100 Free - SPEED IS MOST IMPORTANT

Erik Hochstein — Sat, 03 Jan 2026 00:59:46 GMT

2-3x 15 sort of as a warm up ... then the 50 at 100 pave and something all out. I am still learning how much rest is truly needed - I was so used to endurance type work and you just keep doing sth every day but if you can do sth fast all out every day its for me now a clear sign that I didn't really got max effort. I do a set of 4-6x25 all out ... I need a day rest from anything fast -- still evolving but its working ... clock never lies :)

RE: 100 Free - SPEED IS MOST IMPORTANT

03BNB — Fri, 02 Jan 2026 18:11:10 GMT

Great ideas. Clarify please in Day TWO: do 2-3 rounds of Day One set. Then, “- and 1-2 ALL-OUT ///” ?????

After that , THEN 2 sets of the 50 at 100 pace.

appreciate your clarification

Lyle

RE: Turns if One End of the Pool has Steps

09CY0 — Wed, 24 Dec 2025 22:59:27 GMT

Thanks for all these suggestions. I still haven't decided to whether or not to move there, but if I do I'll try to find other residents that would like to swim laps on a regular basis. I think it would be easier to convince the building management if I wasn't the only one making the request.

Jim

Turns if One End of the Pool has Steps

09CY0 — Thu, 20 Nov 2025 19:14:20 GMT

I'm considering moving to a building that has a pool. It's a beautiful pool, but has steps at one end instead of a wall. It doesn't seem to me like a flip turn will work at all and even an open turn would be awkward on the steps. Anyone dealt with this issue?

RE: Turns if One End of the Pool has Steps

ForceDJ — Wed, 10 Dec 2025 15:04:56 GMT

I’d think that a movable bulkhead would indicate that it’s a competition pool meant for swimming laps (or at least was originally). And consequently wouldn’t have steps across one end. But you are right that the end of the steps would be right about at the 50m point. Still, I’d think something could be created to set in the water, right at the steps, to function as a temporary wall. But personally, with the pool management’s permission, I think I would try for something inexpensive like this graphic I made. Tell them it’s for community use, and maybe they’d let you store it right there at the pool. With a few 2x4s and some plywood, I’d make a matching section of steps, with the same dimensions at the steps in the pool, about 3’ or 4’ wide. Then flip it upside down in the pool and the existing steps would hold it in place. Might require a weight to keep it from floating.

RE: Turns if One End of the Pool has Steps

robinmsmith — Tue, 09 Dec 2025 17:23:52 GMT

Actually, 169 feet is 51.5 meters long. Is the pool missing a moveable bulkhead? As mentioned by Dan, there are portable swim walls that can divide up the lane so you can turn against a "solid" surface. These really range in price from $ hundreds to $$$ thousands. The ones that are typically used by swim teams are the Turnmaster Swim Wall Pro by FINIS (these are not really cheap!).

If you are going to swim laps, you can flip before you reach the stairs since the pool is deep enough. As there is nothing to push off from, this gives a good core and body position workout. And then flip on the wall side as usual. This also gives good training for open water swimming - to turn before the walls and not push off from the bottom. I am guessing that 50 meters might be just before the stairs, so you could track your mileage and "estimated times" during your swims.

Good luck!

Robin

RE: Turns if One End of the Pool has Steps

ForceDJ — Sat, 06 Dec 2025 15:22:59 GMT

Oh, 169 ft. That’s quite a long pool, longer than 50y/50m. I’ve seen this issue before. Some military bases I was stationed at in the Navy 1981-2001 had pools that were built around the end of WWII that were 35 yards long. Originally built as pools for simply training troops to swim, apparently this odd length was done so that outside organizations wouldn’t ask to use the pool for competition. Years later when they eventually decided to use the pool for recreation, they DID want it to be a common length. So, they simply put cement jersey barriers across the pool in the shallow end right at 25 meters. It was a good solution, and worked well. It created a shallow play area for kids without disrupting lap swimmers. Discuss it with your pool’s management. Cheap, jersey barriers are only +/- a few hundred dollars. You can get them in 4’ wide sections so that if you only want to do one lane. If it isn’t tall enough, it can be set on blocks. I’ve seen video of them used to create a 25y/m lap swim area in ponds and lakes too. Perhaps another option would be to use a section of those plastic jersey barriers that you fill with water. Easier to work with for sure. Although because of the buoyancy (even when filled) I don’t know if it’d weigh enough for a swimmer to push off of in a flip turn. But it’d be ‘something’ at least. Anyway…food for thought. — Dan

RE: Turns if One End of the Pool has Steps

09CY0 — Fri, 05 Dec 2025 21:56:18 GMT

Thanks for your response. It's actually 169 feet long, about two lanes, constant depth of about 4 feet, and steps across one end. I could do flip turns at one end but not the step end.

RE: 100 Free - SPEED IS MOST IMPORTANT

Erik Hochstein — Tue, 25 Nov 2025 03:29:51 GMT

Nice - it has for sure changed many things in my swimming and I have been in the sport for quite a while :) ... If nothing else - add in something at MAX speed after an easy warm up - not a 1,000 swimming warm up ... and get LOTS of rest - all ok as long as you stay warm enough. Underwater kicks are tough to learn for me - no matter what, I am still slower for every underwater kick I take -- it does make sense though - you can''t just flip a switch -- sort of the core of swimming is feel for the water and I just don't have the kick feel underwater - trying now to improve my stretching and lower back strength - but still not sure it will ever work - see maybe we weren't that ignorant in our time - wasn't like we just had to push off the wall and kick to get 1/2 sec faster ...

RE: 100 Free - SPEED IS MOST IMPORTANT

1R08V — Mon, 24 Nov 2025 16:51:51 GMT

It's very good timing for me to see your post. I'm 65 and back in pretty good shape after many years -- but have done no real sprinting yet. Interested in what I could do for 50 and 100 y free and knew I needed to get sprinting into practices. (Also wondering if I can ever incorporate butterfly kicks; never learned them and stink at them now.)

RE: Turns if One End of the Pool has Steps

ForceDJ — Fri, 21 Nov 2025 15:13:48 GMT

Several questions. Are you talking about a full size 25y/m competition pool that has steps in the shallow end? They go all the way across the width of the pool? Or, is this an apartment complex pool? Are flip turns absolutely necessary? If it’s in a small apartment complex pool, and you’re just doing straight continuous lap swimming…as opposed to sets and intervals…you might consider stationary swimming on a static line. — Dan

RE: Flip turn mental block

Guido P — Mon, 06 Oct 2025 01:11:44 GMT

Thanks Kyle! As I mentioned above my eeekend attempts to gain confidence failed miserably 🙂. I'll take a little break from flips and start trying again in a week or so. Ill definitely give an update.

Guido

Flip turn mental block

Guido P — Tue, 30 Sep 2025 01:27:20 GMT

I started master swimming in my 20s and had no problem with flip turns, improving technique and confidence over time.

Suddenly at the beginning of this swimming season I developed a fear to turn at the wall as it was too close and get hurt. I either flip farther from the wall and miss to plant my feet to push or renounce to flip and go for an open turn. Things get worse when I'm doing sprinting sets. As the wall approaches I get very anxious with a feeling that it's too close to turn safely. I'm definitely overthinking it.

What can I do to gain confidence back? Is it something that happened to other swimmers?

RE: Flip turn mental block

Guido P — Mon, 06 Oct 2025 01:08:11 GMT

Thanks Dan! As a matter of facts I did hit my heels in my 20s too, so maybe some old fear resurfaced.

It's a strange feeling though almost like the wall is too close and will hit my face. Completely irrational.

I probably need to start with taking a mental break and not obsess with it. After all I don't compete in pool (just open water) and can enjoy my workout still.

RE: Flip turn mental block

Guido P — Mon, 06 Oct 2025 01:02:18 GMT

Thank you! Flip turns were never a problem till a month ago. I actually love them.

I was in the pool by myself this weekend convinced to improve the situation and got the opposite effect. I started with middle of the pool flips and doing ok, then I tried to turn somewhere in the shallow end and literally freaked out, like I would hit the bottom of the pool. I initiated the somersault and aborted it with a backwards jerk movement. After that I fell so anxious and agitated for hours.

I'll go with open turns for a while and will build a mental mindset where it's not a big deal and then try to bring them back.

RE: Flip turn mental block

Kyle Deery — Thu, 02 Oct 2025 01:28:38 GMT

This is definitely something that can happen to swimmers over time, especially if you have had changes to your workouts, equipment, goggles, pool or actually hit your heels recently.
If flip turns are important to your swim training or racing, then working on overcoming that fear should be a part of your training just like doing laps is a part of your training.
Start at the basics of counting strokes into the wall/bottom T and do a tight turn without actually moving your feet towards the wall to build up some confidence. You could also try underwater turns, which greatly slow your momentum.
Keep us posted!

RE: Flip turn mental block

ForceDJ — Wed, 01 Oct 2025 13:22:39 GMT

I’m 64 now, and have a slight phobia of flip turns that I also acquired in my late 20s. “Acquired” is not exactly right. More like ‘inflicted.’ In a pool that I wasn’t yet completely familiar with, on my first or second lap, I hit my heels squarely on the deck edge/coping. It hurt like a M-Fer. I thought I’d broken my heel bones. For a long time immediately after that (months-years), doing flip turns was essentially useless. I was flipping way too far away from the wall to reach it with my feet for a push off. I’d set soft foamy kick boards at the edges just in case it’d happen again. It was quite a while until I got brave enough to flip close enough to get a push. My timing/spacing still isn’t perfect. Consequently, since then, when I go into an unfamiliar pool (or a pool I haven’t been in for quite some time) my first few laps are gauging where I can safely flip from and NOT have a similar accident. Slow, methodical approaches to the wall where I look at the bottom lane line, the floating lane lines, and the end wall, and I make mental notes, and determine where to safely, but effectively flip. — Dan

RE: Flip turn mental block

Erik Hochstein — Wed, 01 Oct 2025 00:46:36 GMT

3 things pop up for me - 1) make sure the flip turn is actually faster for you ... there are many many swimmers I see who do a flip turn but its actually slower than a quick open turn. You can move those knees quickly and you get an extra breath so its not terrible to do open unless you are good at flips 2) practice some in mid pool - no wall anywhere near you, the flip and movement and so on fast and slow and 3) I would take some time and go inch by inch getting closer to the wall -- just do a turn session - maybe have somebody tape you so you see and gain confidence .. hope that helps

RE: Looking for an underwater camera/ Go Pro

3URXX — Sat, 16 Aug 2025 13:17:27 GMT

Thank you Eric.

Looking for an underwater camera/ Go Pro

3URXX — Fri, 15 Aug 2025 14:57:28 GMT

Good morning, all. I practice on my own, and I would like to be able to examine my strokes and turns from an underwater vantage point. Does anyone have a suggestion as to what might work best for them? Thank you so much, and happy swimming!!

RE: Looking for an underwater camera/ Go Pro

Erik Hochstein — Sat, 16 Aug 2025 05:07:55 GMT

Hi - I looked into that a few months ago - best idea I came up with was a "cover" for my phone - problem still is to keep it steady and below water but got creative there and attached it to something heavy. But then I got "annoyed" by quality and time and effort and all - did a real video assessment by reg swim club - not advertising - RaceClub - its the best thing you can do to improve your swimming. All angles for underwater and above water and have somebody "new" take a good look and get the videos .... Still think you can do most of this on your own as well - At any age above maybe 14 I strongly believe you need advice too but YOU are your own best coach - seeing yourself is just so powerful to change things. Just don't overwork it - you can't work on more than 1 "thing" at a time and it takes a while to change your technique.