200m Pacing: Even? Positive Split?

RE: 200m Pacing: Even? Positive Split?

Karl_S — Fri, 28 Jun 2019 02:24:38 GMT

One of the best qualitative explanations of how to swim a 200 that I have seen can be found here: swimcoachdirect.blogspot.com/.../a-200-free-simplified.html In summary: 1st 50: Put on a stroke clinic 2nd 50: Put some power into it 3rd 50: Show me your kick 4th 50: Show me your character The idea is that escalating perceived effort should produce approximately even splits. (The first 50 will be faster because of the dive of course.) From a more quantitative perspective, one can attempt to apply a splitting formula. By looking at splits of NCAA collegiate swimmers, (presumably these are just about as close to ideal as humanly possible because these highly experienced accomplished athletes) it is possible to determine the average splitting of the most successful swimmer. There used to be a table of such splits here: www.baymasters.org/pacing.html but the link seems dead. Perhaps some from Great Bay Masters can point us to where it is now. In any event, Ed Nessel (Cullen Jones coach) has worked out ideal racing formulas. (1) For example, his ideal racing formula for the 200 fr is: S = best 50 fr time. S1 = S + 2.0 (Take the first 50 out 2.0s slower than your best 50.) S2 = S + 3.8 S3 = S + 4.0 S4 = S + 4.4 Add up time is 4S + 14.2 His ideal 200 racing formula for the 200 bk is: Z = best 100 time. (S1 + S2) = Z + 3.5 (Take the first 100 out 3.5s slower than your best 100.) (S3 + S4) = (Z + 3.5) + 3.6 (Allow for 3.6s fade on the back half.) The add-up time (W) is: W = (Z + 3.5) + ((Z + 3.5) + 3.6) = 2Z + 10.6 (roughly, double your best 100 and add 11) I'm pretty sure I posted this information quite a while ago, but I've been unable to find my old post. The search tool for the forums is not very good, and there seems to be a lot of stuff missing from more than ~6 years ago. Refs: (1) Swim to Win: Train like a champion, By Ed Nessel

RE: 200m Pacing: Even? Positive Split?

Former Member — Thu, 27 Jun 2019 15:30:14 GMT

This post speaks to me. Thanks. All of this is theory. What should we aim to do? The rest is the real world. What will you do, given your fitness and ideas? You went 1:13/1:24 at first. May I ask what your splits are in your best 200? My best 200 LCM is a 2:26 though I do not have splits recorded for this swim. I did a 2:29 as 34.3, 36.3, 38.8 and 40.1. This wasn't a great swim. I was out a bit faster than I should have been and paid the price as the meters accumulated. My best swim in a 200 SCY was a 2:01 done as 28.7, 30.1, 31.0 and 31.9.

RE: 200m Pacing: Even? Positive Split?

orca1946 — Thu, 27 Jun 2019 11:28:10 GMT

The faster you swim - the more you will be able to control the 50 splits. For us "normal" swimmers like your time can go at a steady pace and try to finish with a a sprint. Yes - more races with different paces will show you what you can do.

RE: 200m Pacing: Even? Positive Split?

knelson — Thu, 27 Jun 2019 10:18:03 GMT

Jeff is right on about LC vs SC. Push Off speed is faster than swim speed, so losing 4 walls in a LCM pool results in slower times as well as the need to swim/kick a higher % of race time. This is definitiely true. In short course my 100s are normally about two seconds different in a 200 free. No way I can split it like that long course!

RE: 200m Pacing: Even? Positive Split?

Jeff Enge — Thu, 27 Jun 2019 09:48:35 GMT

My best that I could find was 1:02.5/1:06.8. No 50 splits available. From my college years, when I was semi-OK at 200s: LCM - 27.2/29.7/30.5/30.8 - 1:58.41 SCY - 24.3/26.7/26.3/25.9 - 1:43.40 (this was a really badly executed swim, TBH, I was only half a second slower completely untapered earlier that season) And the stark contrast from Masters Nats last spring... 24.5/26.9/27.7/28.2 - 1:47.45

RE: 200m Pacing: Even? Positive Split?

Calvin S — Thu, 27 Jun 2019 09:32:09 GMT

RE: 200m Pacing: Even? Positive Split?

Former Member — Thu, 27 Jun 2019 07:04:13 GMT

My first 200 Free was in LC. I planned to positive split and assumed I'd just hang on for the final 50-75 meters. The splits were something like 1:13 and 1:24. To say it was painful is a wild understatement. I've since found that my best results in the 200 Free are when I think I'm holding back on the first 50 and haven't fallen apart before the last 25. Point being, figuring out the math is the easy part. Having the fitness and the pacing awareness while racing to actually carry out the formula is another issue entirely. I'm a big advocate of breaking down a race like this into more manageable parts. Doing repeats of 50's on 15-20 seconds of rest, essentially USRPT, at your intended race pace will both build endurance and the pace at which you want to swim the race at will become very familiar to you. This post speaks to me. Thanks. All of this is theory. What should we aim to do? The rest is the real world. What will you do, given your fitness and ideas? You went 1:13/1:24 at first. May I ask what your splits are in your best 200?

RE: 200m Pacing: Even? Positive Split?

Former Member — Thu, 27 Jun 2019 05:44:17 GMT

Thanks for all the info. I have learned a lot about 200m pacing. This thread also reaffirms something for me, as I dream about breaking 3min: Damn, you guys are fast!!! :)

RE: 200m Pacing: Even? Positive Split?

Calvin S — Thu, 27 Jun 2019 05:19:02 GMT

I've heard the term, "controlled sprint," used, and I agree with that. Yeah, the point I was trying to make earlier was that the 200 has moved out of the "controlled sprint" genre (at elite levels). It is now a sprint. And the better your underwaters, the better chance you have to shorten the race down to ~110-120 yards of on top of the water sprinting. The "controlled sprint" now is the 500. Out too slow and you don't have enough pool to make up the difference. Out too fast and its just enough swimming that you can live to regret it. Or you can just haul ass for the first 250 yards, flip at 2:00, 4 seconds under American record pace, then hang on for dear life and win by the skin of your teeth, a la Townley Hass at 2019 NCAAs!

RE: 200m Pacing: Even? Positive Split?

aztimm — Thu, 27 Jun 2019 04:35:03 GMT

I don't know, I'm not much of a pool swimmer, and certainly not a fast swimmer. I figure the first 50 (assuming LCM) is going to be faster because of the block and adreneline. The second 50 I try to settle into a decent pace. The third, hold that pace, maybe push it a little more. By the last 50 it is hold on for dear life and push the last 10m as much as I can! Funny, maybe that's why when I look at the swims I've done, I've only swum the 200 free three times ever, 2 LCM and 1 SCM. I do swim the 200 *** somewhat more, and I have to say the most difficult part is not going too fast on that first 50. And hanging on at the end. If you are seeded with swimmers of a similar speed, the race kind of takes care of itself. But for a smaller meet where there could be a minute (or more) spread for a heat, well then you kind of just have to pace yourself. Personally I'd rather swim 50s, 100s, or just go for the 400/500, 800/1000, or 1500/1650. The short are easy--you just go as fast as you can. The long are almost equally easy (for me), settle into a pace and hold it, fast at the end. But I find the 200 to be more of a challenge. I've heard the term, "controlled sprint," used, and I agree with that.

RE: 200m Pacing: Even? Positive Split?

Calvin S — Thu, 27 Jun 2019 01:36:45 GMT

My best 200 YD FR was 1:49.98 leading off an 800 FR-R in March of 2014. For some reason I can't find the 50 splits for it, but my next best was from February of 2012 at 1:50.02 and that race I split 25.52/27.66 (53.18) 28.44/28.40 (56.84). While I cannot remember exactly what that 1:49 was, if memory serves me I was 52/57 for my 100s. The 50 splits were probably almost the same as the 1:50.02. The 1:50 was split a lot better than the 1:49, where I went out guns blazing to try and get under 1:50. Like others have said who tried similar tactics, I definitely paid the price on the last 60 yards, and it is probably only due to my really good walls that I managed to come back barely fast enough to crack 1:50!

RE: 200m Pacing: Even? Positive Split?

Former Member — Wed, 26 Jun 2019 15:07:59 GMT

Fascinating. Thanks for these responses, folks. I'm digesting......slowly. (As I type this, my lowly 50m best is 39.0sec......so according to Windrath, I might try 41-43-43-43 = 2:50??? I'm at 3:04!! Clearly I need to train harder!! Or did I misunderstand something?)

RE: 200m Pacing: Even? Positive Split?

Windrath — Wed, 26 Jun 2019 11:02:56 GMT

Jeff and Skuj, I realize this is kind of "hijacking" this thread into track and field, but... Jeff is right on about LC vs SC. Push Off speed is faster than swim speed, so losing 4 walls in a LCM pool results in slower times as well as the need to swim/kick a higher % of race time. Maybe this is why track times for the 400-800-1500 have plateaued - there is no place (aka turns) where the runner can rest upper body and/or use leg muscles differently (kicking vs turn push-offs)? It would be interesting to create a 100-200-400 meter pool and time swimmers without any turns at all. :)

RE: 200m Pacing: Even? Positive Split?

Former Member — Wed, 26 Jun 2019 10:26:13 GMT

Yeah, got it. I'm basically twice as slow as the WR people, so 2sec difference to them is 4sec for me. I'm sensing that each 50m getting a little slower might suit me though. Perhaps my way to attack sub 3min is 43-44-45-46. I have checked other splits from good 200m swimmers, and that seems to be the general trend. Thanks for all the responses. I'm learning lots. :)

RE: 200m Pacing: Even? Positive Split?

Jeff Enge — Wed, 26 Jun 2019 09:46:40 GMT

So, to expand on what Mr. Windrath is saying, the four fastest SCY 200 freestylers of all time (Farris, Haas, Pieroni, Seliskar) swam very similar races for their best times. Out fast, maintain through 150, hold on for dear life the last 50 to varying degrees of success. What's interesting is that they are all very different styles of swimmer. Farris is absolutely massive for a swimmer and tends towards sprints now (though he's also a great 200 backstroker). Haas is the other way around - he's a great freestyler from 50-1650 but his next best event is the 500. He's also terrible turns/underwater, and is kind of a string bean compared to the others. Pieroni is your prototypical 200 freestyler, and your prototypical sprint freestyler build. Seliskar is an underwater beast, and is the smallest of the bunch - he tends to longer races too, having done the 400 IM instead of the 200 free at every NCAAs prior to last year. To me, this consistency in tactics despite vast differences in style supports the thought that this is the current consensus of best way to swim the 200 SCY free. 200 LCM free appears to be completely another story, I don't think the swimming world has really figured out the best way to swim that since the supersuits went away - Nobody has come within a second of Biedermann's world record, and I think only Yannick Agnel in 2012 has come within a second of the prior Michael Phelps world record. It's just hard to maintain a full sprint-ish kick for that long in the long course pool.

RE: 200m Pacing: Even? Positive Split?

Windrath — Wed, 26 Jun 2019 09:16:09 GMT

Skuj, After years of looking at 200 splits and coaching kids (or me) to best times, one of the best ways to decide how to swim the 200 starts with knowing your best 50 and 100 times. The elite swimmers's first 50 is usually 1.5-2 seconds slower than their fastest 50. The 2nd 50 is usually 1.5-2 seconds slower than the 1st 50. Ideally, the 3rd and 4th 50s are very close to their 2nd 50. Use Dean Ferris's splits from his 1:29.15 at the NCAAs in March: -1st 50 was 20.6 (his best is just under 19) - 2nd 50 was 22.3 (1.6 sec slower than 1st 50) (His 42.8 was 2.2 seconds slower than his best 100) - 3rd 50 was 22.5 (very close to the 2nd 50) - 4th 50 was much slower 23.72 (he was paying the price more than Townley Hass) The formula I use is 2 seconds slower than best on the 1st 50, and the 2nd-3rd-4th 50s should all be 2 seconds slower than the 1st 50. If you cannot maintain that pacing, you are going too fast on the 1st 50 or you need to train harder. The nice thing about this analytical approach is you can train this way with broken 200s (4 x 50 with 10 sec rest). Watch the clock, get your splits, and get used to what 2 seconds actually feels like. As Calvin S mentioned - the 200 has become a sprint for the men and they train for it with alot of anaerobic threshhold sets (heart rate above 180) to improve their body's lactic acid tolerance especially in the legs. It seems like the 400, 800, and 1500 track distance times have plateaued more than the equivalent swimming distance. I suspect it has to be with the injury/exhaustion factor if they tried to train on land the same way the elite swimmers are training. They would have to do alot more track training sets like 10 x 200 (100% effort) with 15-20 sec rest or event 5 x 400 (95% effort) with 20 sec rest and try to split the 800 like 46-50.

RE: 200m Pacing: Even? Positive Split?

Former Member — Wed, 26 Jun 2019 08:59:39 GMT

RE: 200m Pacing: Even? Positive Split?

flystorms — Wed, 26 Jun 2019 08:49:18 GMT

Ooh, I love the 200 (though it killed me in ABQ last week!). One of the things i like to do to train for it is to do 5 of them and descend from the back: 200 easy 150 easy, 50 fast 100 easy, 100 fast 50 easy, 150 fast 200 fast This gives a good feeling of pushing it hard at the end. I've had good success with using this set in training and improving my 200 times/race strategy. I'll do these on 3:15 and try to get in under 2:30 or better, depending on where I am in the season.

RE: 200m Pacing: Even? Positive Split?

Patrick W. Brundage — Wed, 26 Jun 2019 02:33:26 GMT

Remember these guys are going a lot faster, so as a similar percentage...I love Windrath's analysis, but to Allen's point, use % deltas or % of total race time vs actual seconds. I use Excel (the world's greatest piece of software) to benchmark my 400 IM times vs myself and the elites by simply looking at % of total time taken up by each stroke. I did this analysis a few years ago - forums.usms.org/entry.php. So, you could build a similar spreadsheet and layer in columns showing Haas, Seliskar, Farris, etc. and then your times as you race this over and over again.

RE: 200m Pacing: Even? Positive Split?

Allen Stark — Wed, 26 Jun 2019 01:58:47 GMT

Remember these guys are going a lot faster, so as a similar percentage think 3 sec slower for the first 50 and then each 50 thereafter 4 sec slower than the first. This is the pace I aim for with my 200M BR and LCM I am aiming for 3 min. So my ideal splits for a 3 min. 200 is 42,46,46,46. In 2016(last time I wasn't sick or hurt for LCM Nats) I went 3:00.1 as 41.07,46.49, 47.18, 45.27. BR is not free and most free swimmers split more evenly than most BR swimmers, but YMMV

RE: 200m Pacing: Even? Positive Split?

Calvin S — Tue, 25 Jun 2019 11:11:46 GMT

200 Freestyle is the newest "sprint," at least for yards. For meters I suppose it is a little tougher to approach it with that mentality. You really have to strike a balance between attacking the first 50 to stay in the race, while holding back some for the back half without losing the race on the first 50 (which is where I almost ALWAYS lose my 200 freestyle races!).

RE: 200m Pacing: Even? Positive Split?

Mark Usher — Tue, 25 Jun 2019 10:45:31 GMT

Swimming an even paced 200 is actually going to feel like you're swimming a negative split as the fatigue factor kicks in. I like to swim 200 builds in practice to get a feel for the increased effort over each 50. One of the things I find that helps me is tracking my stroke count for each length, trying to hold it steady for the entire distance.

RE: 200m Pacing: Even? Positive Split?

Former Member — Tue, 25 Jun 2019 09:31:16 GMT

I appreciate these responses, thanks. I see Mr Haas did indeed do a healthy positive split, even if you negate the dive-in.

RE: 200m Pacing: Even? Positive Split?

Patrick W. Brundage — Tue, 25 Jun 2019 08:04:00 GMT

The best way to figure out what works for you is to race a lot, and experiment with different strategies. If you want to see what world class swimmers do, check out the NCAA Men's swimming results for guys like Townley Haas - swimswam.com/.../.