When to breath in Butterfly - article posted 4-Feb-2019

RE: When to breath in Butterfly - article posted 4-Feb-2019

ourswimmer — Wed, 13 Feb 2019 12:17:22 GMT

Phelps is not raising his head. His body is raising up which makes it possible to breathe. The "upward" press and the catch is what raises the upper body relative to the hips which allows the head to surface and breathe. Certainly I do try to minimize my head's movement relative to my spine, and not just because I have a cervical fusion.

RE: When to breath in Butterfly - article posted 4-Feb-2019

Swimspire — Tue, 12 Feb 2019 11:39:50 GMT

Phelps is clearly raising his head in the power part of th pull, not at the catch. Thanks Elaine. Allen, in a way, you are right. Michael does breathe during the power phase of the stroke. To be more specific, Bob Bowman once explained that "Michael takes his breath at the end of the arm stroke, just before the hands exit the water. I like for Michael to remember that the head leads the hands, the head emerges for the breath before the hands exit the water and the head submerges prior to the hand entry after the over-water phase"

RE: When to breath in Butterfly - article posted 4-Feb-2019

Allen Stark — Tue, 12 Feb 2019 09:20:21 GMT

Phelps is clearly raising his head in the power part of th pull, not at the catch. Thanks Elaine.

RE: When to breath in Butterfly - article posted 4-Feb-2019

Windrath — Tue, 12 Feb 2019 09:10:44 GMT

Hi Allen, A very subtle point. Phelps is not raising his head. His body is raising up which makes it possible to breathe. The "upward" press and the catch is what raises the upper body relative to the hips which allows the head to surface and breathe. Beginner swimmer lift their head to breathe instead of breathing when their body position is optimal - which is what Phelps does. By breathing when he does, it does not require extra exertion.

RE: When to breath in Butterfly - article posted 4-Feb-2019

Allen Stark — Tue, 12 Feb 2019 03:42:48 GMT

I always told my swimmers: when you pull, your chest is higher than your hips. And, it stays this way until right before the arms/hands enter the water to begin the next stroke. BTW, same thing applies to breaststroke. In BR it seems to me that the chest should not begin to rise until the insweep. Your chest is naturally lifted up by the insweep and this way allows one to stay streamlined longer.

RE: When to breath in Butterfly - article posted 4-Feb-2019

Windrath — Mon, 11 Feb 2019 08:33:15 GMT

To All, There is one aspect of fly/*** (the short axis strokes) that has not been touched on and it can be a very subtle point (ourswimmer touched on part of it). The beginning of the fly stroke is a combination of two things: the catch and the arm/hand press downward/backward coupled with an upward "press" in the middle of the back between the scapulae (the opposite of a "T" press in the other direction). This upward press lifts the upper torso which results in the hips dropping a bit. This makes it possible to "jut" your chin forward (like Phelps) to breathe instead of lifting your head upward which really drops your hips. Many butterflyers, without realizing it, press downward with their chest AND their arms at the beginning of the stroke. Because their chest is down during the pull, they are forced to breathe at the end of the stroke and during the recovery. This means they see their arms during the recovery. Not a good thing. I always told my swimmers: when you pull, your chest is higher than your hips. And, it stays this way until right before the arms/hands enter the water to begin the next stroke. BTW, same thing applies to breaststroke. :) Windrath

RE: When to breath in Butterfly - article posted 4-Feb-2019

Jeff Enge — Mon, 11 Feb 2019 08:31:10 GMT

Check out Michael Phelps' breath timing in these screenshots from the 2012 Olympic Games. Speaks for itself! 11838 11839 11840 11841 11842 Yep. Initiate breath early, carry head forward through the recovery.

RE: When to breath in Butterfly - article posted 4-Feb-2019

Elaine Krugman — Mon, 11 Feb 2019 06:26:09 GMT

Meanwhile, here's a clip of my fly. (Please don't laugh too hard!) I think the timing of my breath is correct; however, I'm sure there is plenty more you could say about my stroke. OP, keep in mind I am a 57-year-old breastroker, and I rank near the bottom of the heap in 200 butterfly! www.youtube.com/watch

RE: When to breath in Butterfly - article posted 4-Feb-2019

Elaine Krugman — Mon, 11 Feb 2019 06:18:51 GMT

I can't tell from the pictures when he breathes relative to the catch. This video includes a slow motion clip that shows it quite well. Watch it at the :10 mark: www.youtube.com/watch

RE: When to breath in Butterfly - article posted 4-Feb-2019

Allen Stark — Mon, 11 Feb 2019 02:36:11 GMT

I can't tell from the pictures when he breathes relative to the catch.

RE: When to breath in Butterfly - article posted 4-Feb-2019

Swimspire — Sun, 10 Feb 2019 08:34:45 GMT

Check out Michael Phelps' breath timing in these screenshots from the 2012 Olympic Games. Speaks for itself! 11838 11839 11840 11841 11842

RE: When to breath in Butterfly - article posted 4-Feb-2019

__steve__ — Sun, 10 Feb 2019 05:05:52 GMT

I agree sounds like it’s stressing a little early, but maybe was to ingrain not breathing late.

RE: When to breath in Butterfly - article posted 4-Feb-2019

BillRyan — Sun, 10 Feb 2019 04:50:13 GMT

Thanks everyone. I get it now. Breathing during the power phase. :)

RE: When to breath in Butterfly - article posted 4-Feb-2019

Allen Stark — Sat, 09 Feb 2019 10:14:18 GMT

RE: When to breath in Butterfly - article posted 4-Feb-2019

67King — Sat, 09 Feb 2019 09:50:33 GMT

I vote with the majority......almost. I dont so much pick up my head as I use the pull to bring my face out of the water. I am actually starting my press (with chest) as my hands enter, and as the motion moves down into my torso during the early stages of my pull, that is when I lift my head

RE: When to breath in Butterfly - article posted 4-Feb-2019

ourswimmer — Sat, 09 Feb 2019 01:48:30 GMT

I agree that you shouldn't see tha arms, but the original recommendation seems a little early to me. If you lift your head at the catch it seems like that would prematurely break streamline. I think I lift my head during the power phase of the pull and lower it as my arms are recovering. Me too. I was thinking about it a bit this morning. When my hands go in, my chest and head are down and my hips are up. My chest and head come up as I begin to pull, and my hips go down. I get the breath by poking my chin forward just a bit so that my mouth clears the water. I do try to get my head back down by the time my hands are by my midsection; but I don't breathe so early that I never see my hands or forearms at all. I am not a very good flyer, though. I think that good thoracic mobility (front-to-back, not twisting or bending side-to-side) is the key and I don't really have it.

RE: When to breath in Butterfly - article posted 4-Feb-2019

Redbird Alum — Fri, 08 Feb 2019 12:09:42 GMT

... I thought the butterfly breath happened as the hands are EXITING the water on the way to recovery over the water. I'm confused. What JPEnge said... But I understand our confusion. I remember so many coaches telling younger swimmers to "breathe in the back" referring to when the hands were finishing the pull. I have had to correct this more than anything else with my younger swimmers' butterfly. I tell them to breathe in the press, or breathe early. There are also a horribly lot of pictures of butterfliers with hands AND face up for the cameras!

RE: When to breath in Butterfly - article posted 4-Feb-2019

Jeff Enge — Thu, 07 Feb 2019 07:06:43 GMT

No, he's definitely right. If you wait until your hands are exiting the water, you suddenly have you hands and your head out of the water at the same time, which is a sure ticket to making your legs drop, which is a really un-hydrodynamic position, which leads to fatigue, which leads to "going vertical" on the last 25 of a race.