Help with back stroke timing

RE: Help with back stroke timing

Former Member — Sat, 22 Dec 2018 06:17:01 GMT

Have you joined a Masters tea? Swim it like free only on your back. Yes, the hands/arms should be in opposition to each other

RE: Help with back stroke timing

larrydk — Wed, 19 Dec 2018 07:30:21 GMT

Thanks for this, and thanks for thinking about it! I like your comparison to skating. I recognized my duck feet were (and are) an issue, I've been training with two different fins that are supposed to "retrain" your feet to point in. The Aquasphere Alphafin (which I love because I can keep up with the really fast swimmers when wearing these) and the Finis PDF fins (which honestly are better, because they require much more work when using). I believe that my head position still is a huge issue as well as just building the core strength necessary to back stroke properly.....I'm going to get some video hopefully so I can see what's really going on and let this group help also. Thanks again.

RE: Help with back stroke timing

Windrath — Mon, 17 Dec 2018 04:00:38 GMT

larrydk, Was thinking about you this morning during my swim and a couple of things came to mind to pass on: I mentioned not to be too worried about lack of ankle flexibility - I should qualify that statement. For a good backstroke kick, I suggest making sure the toes are turned inward so the big toes actually touch when passing each other. This orientation ensures max amount of surface area and keeps the knees from pointing outward and maximizes the ankle flex. As a speed skater, this is a different orientation than you are used to, right? Think duck footed. Second, I use speed skating (distance, not sprinting) when describing timing of the freestyle/backstroke. I suggest to swimmers that their lead arm should stay straight and out in front while the pulling arm finishes. I tell swimmers to visualize a skater who sets the lead skate and pushes off with the other foot and then the skater glides glides along the ice. Hope this description makes sense. When done well, the lead arm (by virtue of being way in front of the chest/head) makes it much easier to glide in the water while the other arm finishes and starts the recovery. It results is less drag and a feeling of easily gliding through the water. The final comment involves the pulling pattern. Sometimes backstrokers, because they can't see their hands, end up pushing water towards the bottom and don't even realize it. When this happens, the pull is almost straight arm and can negatively affect body alignment. When this happens, I tell them to make sure their thumb touches their side during the pull or to pull on the lane line. Neither of these will result in a technically good pull. However, they WILL help you know that your hand needs to be close to the surface instead of pushing water towards the bottom. Hope these help a bit. Paul

RE: Help with back stroke timing

Windrath — Sat, 15 Dec 2018 10:59:00 GMT

Larrydk, Without video, it is just a shot in the dark at diagnosing technical problems. A couple of comments though: Sometimes swimmers doing backstroke think the best way to get their feet closer to the surface is to push their chest upward and/or pushing their chin upward - usually to the extreme. These motions result in an arched back which will actually cause the feet and legs to sink. The resulting "out of alignment" makes correct rotation next to impossible and tends to results in straight arm pulling patterns without much balance. To keep your feet/legs closer to the surface, I find it helps to tuck your chin and think about pushing your hips upward (just a little - they should not break the surface). In this position, you should be able to rotate easier which should give you a chance to keep an arm at the top of the stroke a little longer which will help balance. Streamline kicking works for you because your arms are overhead which moves your center of gravity from your hips towards your chest, so it is important that an arm spends as much time at the top of the stroke as possible. orca1946's description of the pulling pattern is the one I use. I also tell swimmers to think about throwing sidearm (if they are good throwers) because this can help with the shoulder, elbow, and hand positioning. Lack of ankle flexibility is not critical to what you are working on right now. When you get alignment, rotation, and pulling patterns improved, you will want to go faster which is when ankle flex will become important. Good Luck. Windrath

RE: Help with back stroke timing

larrydk — Sat, 15 Dec 2018 07:14:48 GMT

this is helpful, thanks

RE: Help with back stroke timing

larrydk — Fri, 14 Dec 2018 12:27:43 GMT

Actually I'm finding those muscles to not help much at all! Speed skating is very similar to swim in the correct technique makes a HUGE difference. For whatever reason, my skater legs are not very good at kicking, firstly I lack the ankle flexibility conducive to good kicking (I've been working a lot on that, but training your ankles to loosen up after 53 years is not an overnight process). Secondly, the predominate muscles for skating are the glutes and quads, it seems my hamstrings a very under developed?

RE: Help with back stroke timing

orca1946 — Fri, 14 Dec 2018 12:18:41 GMT

With speed skating as a back ground, you must have strong muscles to kick with. Are you kicking up to the surface ? And do not bend your knees as if riding a bicycle.

RE: Help with back stroke timing

Sumorunner — Fri, 14 Dec 2018 06:27:06 GMT

Lack of ankle flexibility is exactly the problem I had, making the transition from lifelong runner. The kick not only isn't there, it is at times counter-productive. The more I concentrate on a kick, the more it takes away from my stroke. Still, after two years with a masters team, on a flutter kick set I can stare at the pool bottom and count the number of tiles go by one by one. I find back and *** stroke kicking to be OK though.

RE: Help with back stroke timing

orca1946 — Mon, 10 Dec 2018 12:11:34 GMT

Have you joined a Masters tea? Swim it like free only on your back. Yes, the hands/arms should be in opposition to each other

RE: Help with back stroke timing

Redbird Alum — Mon, 10 Dec 2018 08:52:05 GMT

Larry - The fact that you can streamline your kick for some distance is great! Can you get someone to take a video of your backstroke? Side view and end view would help. Also, Orca is spot on with the throw the ball analogy. The "bottom heavy" thing is a direct correlation to your head position. Make sure your head is far enough back in the water that your ears are under. Keep it aligned as if your nose has a string directly up to the ceiling. Another key in the backstroke is core strength (Abdomen and lower back). You have to be able to keep the axis from the top of your head through your feet in line, NO Sitting! Again, a video would help, but keep up the good work!

RE: Help with back stroke timing

larrydk — Mon, 10 Dec 2018 01:59:50 GMT

This is helpful I don't think I'm dropping my arms enough, but I feel it's because of a lack of rotation? The problem is the more I put into the rotation, the more fatiguing the stroke. I don't think my arms are too straight on the pull, I like your analogy though and will try that though process I've been experimenting with head position a lot. My issue is that I'm really bottom heavy (I was a speed skater until 1-1/2 years ago)If I don't look straight up, my butt and legs really sink I've been working a lot on my kick, I can comfortably do streamline kicking on my back form many lengths, but when I add the arms it goes bad!

RE: Help with back stroke timing

orca1946 — Mon, 10 Dec 2018 01:36:24 GMT

OK that info helps.. Are you dropping "your elbow enough to have the hand catch and "throw" the water down towards you feet? Are you pulling out too wide with the are too straight? your hand should follow a path like taking a ball and throwing it down towards you feet if you were standing up. Are you keeping your head back to look up not at the feet? Are you kicking up to the water surface?

RE: Help with back stroke timing

larrydk — Mon, 10 Dec 2018 01:15:45 GMT

I have joined a team for the last year, only recently have been trying to learn fly and back to do IM's. There just seems to be a timing thing I'm missing something on back because I'm drowning.... I can swim a 10k free but am taxed after 25 yards of back....