Made a big change, would appreciate feedback

RE: Made a big change, would appreciate feedback

Swimspire — Tue, 22 Jan 2019 06:06:14 GMT

You're getting lots of great advice on this thread! You may want to consider the type of approach you need to take in order to implement positive changes into your stroke. If you take on too much all at once, you may not benefit as much as focusing on one specific area at a time. Trying to simply incorporate all of the changes into your fullstroke will be very difficult since there are a variety of different elements you need to think about. A better approach would be to deconstruct your stroke... and then build it back up via progressional drills that isolate specific areas of the stroke and take aim at specific weaknesses. Work on developing workouts that include a combination of progressional drills, kicking sets and fullstroke so that you can isolate movements and then experience how to incorporate those movements into your fullstroke. If you're struggling with this, you may want to work with a stroke technique coach to give you a better perspective and help you with structuring your workouts and achieving all the changes you need to make to your stroke. Good luck!

RE: Made a big change, would appreciate feedback

Windrath — Mon, 21 Jan 2019 10:22:39 GMT

DSG - Thanks for the video. A couple of questions followed by comments: Is there a reason why your pulling pattern is so far outside your body? Your pull begins, especially with your left arm, with an outward push which, because you are flat in the water, causes your shoulders (upper torso) to move "right" and your hips (lower torso) to move left - this causes the snaking. It would be interesting to see how this looks when you do not breathe. Are you keeping your head position (during breathing and when not breathing) the way it is on purpose? The orientation of your head relative to your spine and chest is not good alignment. Alignment should be almost like when you walk down the street, so would you walk down the street with your head in this position and your chin so high? Your chin position reminds me of when I have to lift my head to see through the lower section of my glasses instead of the upper part. Are you keeping your hips loose on purpose? Do you have any hip movement limitations? It looks like your right hip does not like to rotate "upward", but this could be because you breathe to the right coupled with lateral torso movement. I think what is happening is this: when you breathe, you are still jutting your chin forward AND lifting your chin at the same time. This results in a counteraction which forces your hips upward and breaks any connection with your legs. IMO, your chin position and movement during your breathing should be the primary focus. Your chin (relative to your chest) should stay neutral at all times - like you are walking down the street - looking straight ahead. When breathing, the movement should be similar to looking sideways to make eye contact with someone your same height who is ~ 2 feet behind you and ~ 2 feet to your right. Conversely, what you are doing right now is looking at that same person, but there is a wall between the two of you and you are trying to move your upper body sideways to see around the wall. This is a pretty convoluted way to explain it - sorry. :) In the end, as Steve mentioned, you want all movement to be rotational around a fixed axis. Currently though, that axis is NOT stable - it is moving side-to-side as well as up and down mostly because of what your head is doing. Snorkel will help - coupled with drills where you focus entirely on shoulder-hip rotation without your axis moving around. Sorry - very long post. paul

RE: Made a big change, would appreciate feedback

67King — Mon, 21 Jan 2019 10:08:49 GMT

Couple of things. Looks to me like you are not driving from your hips and engaging your core. Your upper body is not rotating as much as it should. That impacts your breathing as you have to roll your head over more. But you should find that your shoulder rubs against the back of your jaw on your non-breathing side. Looks also like you are looking up a little bit too much. Try taking a tennis ball and holding it between your chin and sternum. That will keep your head down. You'll need a snorkel to breathe. Someone, I think Dolphin, makes a ball with dimples for that purpose, but I could never rotate my head without losing it. When your head is positioned like that, you'll see your elbow come out of the water, as you'll be looking about 3/4 rearward when you breathe. I know someone mentioned stroke efficiency/Distance Per Stroke. That is the best instant feedback you can have. Always count. My DPS has improved drastically, over 50%, since I started a bit under 2 years ago. I think you'll find if you start driving from the hips, and keeping your head down, your DPS will improve pretty dramatically. Not an expert, hope if I miss something those more experienced than me will correct me, but those are things I think I see.

RE: Made a big change, would appreciate feedback

flystorms — Mon, 21 Jan 2019 09:42:36 GMT

Hi David. Just seeing your video and you're not doing bad at all. Minor tweaks and you'll be doing well. I love that you're asking for feedback. Here's what I'm seeing just in this video... Your left hand enters well and you seem to have good forward reach on this side. When you pull back on this side, though you look like your hand is pushing back at an angle away from your body which may be causing you to veer towards the right. Try keeping your hand closer in line with your body, much like treads on a tank can only go around their track, and push that water back behind you. Your right hand appears to enter a tad too far to the right. It looks like it's entering at about the 2 o'clock point instead of about 1 o'clock. You also might want to reach out in front of you more on this side as well - really stretch it out ahead of you.

RE: Made a big change, would appreciate feedback

Former Member — Mon, 21 Jan 2019 08:55:24 GMT

@Kari - thanks Kari, I'm going to draw a pull diagram and that might help me visualise what I need to try and achieve based on your notes @67 King thank you. I definitely notice the difference when I breathe every 4 and every 2, because the stability every 4 is vastly different. Interestingly enough, I tried back stroke and butterfly for the first time and was markedly quicker than freestyle telling me that breathing to the side is really hampering me. A question for you: I'm not sure what I am doing wrong on engaging the hips. As my mind is trying to process it, I'm trying to stay still so I don't snake, but engaging the hips means (to me) I twist them more? @Paul - thank you. Your advice is really helpful. I am sure I look forward because I swim in an environment where if you're not looking in front of you, one will get a foot in the face. It's a bad habit that developed from trying to watch out. I think on my pull I am taking the advice wrong to keep the elbow high and push back and its somehow become muddled. I was trying to keep elbow high and not bend from elbow to fingertips, but it's obviously not being executed properly. DSG - Thanks for the video. A couple of questions followed by comments: Is there a reason why your pulling pattern is so far outside your body? Your pull begins, especially with your left arm, with an outward push which, because you are flat in the water, causes your shoulders (upper torso) to move "right" and your hips (lower torso) to move left - this causes the snaking. It would be interesting to see how this looks when you do not breathe. Are you keeping your head position (during breathing and when not breathing) the way it is on purpose? The orientation of your head relative to your spine and chest is not good alignment. Alignment should be almost like when you walk down the street, so would you walk down the street with your head in this position and your chin so high? Your chin position reminds me of when I have to lift my head to see through the lower section of my glasses instead of the upper part. Are you keeping your hips loose on purpose? Do you have any hip movement limitations? It looks like your right hip does not like to rotate "upward", but this could be because you breathe to the right coupled with lateral torso movement. I think what is happening is this: when you breathe, you are still jutting your chin forward AND lifting your chin at the same time. This results in a counteraction which forces your hips upward and breaks any connection with your legs. IMO, your chin position and movement during your breathing should be the primary focus. Your chin (relative to your chest) should stay neutral at all times - like you are walking down the street - looking straight ahead. When breathing, the movement should be similar to looking sideways to make eye contact with someone your same height who is ~ 2 feet behind you and ~ 2 feet to your right. Conversely, what you are doing right now is looking at that same person, but there is a wall between the two of you and you are trying to move your upper body sideways to see around the wall. This is a pretty convoluted way to explain it - sorry. :) In the end, as Steve mentioned, you want all movement to be rotational around a fixed axis. Currently though, that axis is NOT stable - it is moving side-to-side as well as up and down mostly because of what your head is doing. Snorkel will help - coupled with drills where you focus entirely on shoulder-hip rotation without your axis moving around. Sorry - very long post. paul

RE: Made a big change, would appreciate feedback

67King — Mon, 21 Jan 2019 06:59:52 GMT

A question for you: I'm not sure what I am doing wrong on engaging the hips. As my mind is trying to process it, I'm trying to stay still so I don't snake, but engaging the hips means (to me) I twist them more? Paul hit on your hips being a bit loose. You rotate your torso as you begin your stroke and thrust your hand forward. I'm probably doing a poor job describing it. Don't think about twisting, most about reaching. If you reach forward, of if you are standing on dry land (redundant, I know) and reach up, you can reach further if you stretch your whole body, and not just from teh shoulder to your fingertips. In the water, that stretch becomes a little bit of a rotation. I've not tried this, but I generally get a lot out of Gary Hall's videos. I'd give this a watch. Notice how the body remains inline, and the torso through the shoulders rotate around that axis. www.youtube.com/watch

RE: Made a big change, would appreciate feedback

Former Member — Sun, 20 Jan 2019 15:15:30 GMT

Thanks Steve. I taped myself yesterday to see the progress I made which I included here. After watching the video it felt like I made more progress in the water than I actually see in the video, but I think I am *getting* how to work towards rolling my head less and I feel like I'm snaking less. Ive been doing the drill with the snorkel that Calvin suggested and it's been very helpful especially to illustrate how my uneven pull is affecting me along with my breathing. Especially when the snorkel removes the breathing issue and I notice my pulls being so different. www.youtube.com/watch Here is a good illustration I found helpful for me: imagine a laser mounted on top your swim cap beaming light axially (strait forward) from your head when in neutral position (eyes looking at bottom of pool). Ideally, the laser dot will land on the approaching wall + marking throughout the swim. When you further rotate head to breathe, as well as when you rotate to recover/pull, the dot shouldn’t move, stays at same spot on wall as you approach it, until you turn. To maximize efficiency, the only twisting in the spine for freestyle occurs in the neck, for neutral head position and for breathing. Also imagine yourself solid craft gliding through water while in constant axial rotation to one side then the other. The rotating thoracic and lumbar spine remains almost fixed, so the hips and shoulders maintain a similar plane of rotation. The only difference is subtle, for transfer of energy perhaps from shoulder to hips in your case (shoulder driven stroke vs hip driven). Swimming is opposite in this regards to running, where the shoulders counterbalance the hips. Props for stepping up and using video to improve, it is a fantastic tool.

RE: Made a big change, would appreciate feedback

__steve__ — Thu, 17 Jan 2019 06:27:04 GMT

Here is a good illustration I found helpful for me: imagine a laser mounted on top your swim cap beaming light axially (strait forward) from your head when in neutral position (eyes looking at bottom of pool). Ideally, the laser dot will land on the approaching wall + marking throughout the swim. When you further rotate head to breathe, as well as when you rotate to recover/pull, the dot shouldn’t move, stays at same spot on wall as you approach it, until you turn. To maximize efficiency, the only twisting in the spine for freestyle occurs in the neck, for neutral head position and for breathing. Also imagine yourself solid craft gliding through water while in constant axial rotation to one side then the other. The rotating thoracic and lumbar spine remains almost fixed, so the hips and shoulders maintain a similar plane of rotation. The only difference is subtle, for transfer of energy perhaps from shoulder to hips in your case (shoulder driven stroke vs hip driven). Swimming is opposite in this regards to running, where the shoulders counterbalance the hips. Props for stepping up and using video to improve, it is a fantastic tool.

RE: Made a big change, would appreciate feedback

Former Member — Sat, 12 Jan 2019 10:10:12 GMT

Thanks Julia, this is a really helpful drill I will try. Some really helpful tips here, too, on what I can gradually work on. Thanks for posting the video, both above and under water. It's great to see that you are so motivated to coach yourself and learn about the areas of your stroke that need improvement. For not having been a swimmer before, and having only practiced swimming for five years, you certainly are doing a great job! There are a few main areas that you can work on to fine-tune your stroke, based on the video you posted. I would suggest working on keeping your head/the vertical axis of your body still. As you can see in the underwater video, your head and body are constantly moving from side-to-side. This can be caused by several different factors: a wide pull (see below for more explanation), lack of kick, and even your breathing pattern. Think about rotating around that axis. This will allow you to get a good rotation while keeping your head still and body line streamlined. In my opinion, your current head position is just fine. Another area that will help keep you swimming in a straight line is working on avoiding the crossing over tendency - as you noticed - with the right arm. Despite that tendency to cross over you simultaneously have a very wide pull, that extends outside of the body line. This means you are not taking full advantage of your pull to move you forward. This also can contribute to the excessive head movement mentioned above. You can practice the "early vertical forearm" pull by trying drills such as these: www.youtube.com/watch Finally, I would suggest working on maximizing your distance per stroke - in other words getting a full extension at the front of the stroke and a complete finish at the end of the stroke. As you can see in the underwater video, you start your pull immediately upon entering the water with your hand. You need to get more of an extension at the front of the stroke prior to beginning the catch phase of the pull. In the process of lengthening your stroke, you will also develop more of a kick. Working with a coach - either remotely or on-deck - can also help you design structured workouts that will be geared towards your current swimming needs and building up your endurance. Good luck!

RE: Made a big change, would appreciate feedback

Swimspire — Fri, 11 Jan 2019 02:55:33 GMT

Thanks for posting the video, both above and under water. It's great to see that you are so motivated to coach yourself and learn about the areas of your stroke that need improvement. For not having been a swimmer before, and having only practiced swimming for five years, you certainly are doing a great job! There are a few main areas that you can work on to fine-tune your stroke, based on the video you posted. I would suggest working on keeping your head/the vertical axis of your body still. As you can see in the underwater video, your head and body are constantly moving from side-to-side. This can be caused by several different factors: a wide pull (see below for more explanation), lack of kick, and even your breathing pattern. Think about rotating around that axis. This will allow you to get a good rotation while keeping your head still and body line streamlined. In my opinion, your current head position is just fine. Another area that will help keep you swimming in a straight line is working on avoiding the crossing over tendency - as you noticed - with the right arm. Despite that tendency to cross over you simultaneously have a very wide pull, that extends outside of the body line. This means you are not taking full advantage of your pull to move you forward. This also can contribute to the excessive head movement mentioned above. You can practice the "early vertical forearm" pull by trying drills such as these: www.youtube.com/watch Finally, I would suggest working on maximizing your distance per stroke - in other words getting a full extension at the front of the stroke and a complete finish at the end of the stroke. As you can see in the underwater video, you start your pull immediately upon entering the water with your hand. You need to get more of an extension at the front of the stroke prior to beginning the catch phase of the pull. In the process of lengthening your stroke, you will also develop more of a kick. Working with a coach - either remotely or on-deck - can also help you design structured workouts that will be geared towards your current swimming needs and building up your endurance. Good luck!

RE: Made a big change, would appreciate feedback

Former Member — Thu, 10 Jan 2019 17:24:00 GMT

Thanks Paul. This is immensely helpful. After watching the video I'm even more conscious of this. Indeed - the impetus for this thread was trying to change breathing sides because I knew it was affecting me significantly. After watching my video I was shocked at how much. I will try working on the drill with the snorkel, but if you have any videos of perfect breathing that you could point to when you remember them that would be helpful. I'm trying to juggle not rotating so much to where my belly button is pointing perpendicular at the wall so I don't have to move my head to capture some air; with just shrugging into angling my head when my right arm is recovering. DSG, Your head movement is a huge amount of the issue. I agree with Redbird that you want to"tuck" your chin - looking down will help alot (a similar position to lying on the floor looking up at the ceiling). The cause of your snaking is the way your head moves when you breathe. Your body will go where your head leads it and, because your head moves out of alignment, it causes your hips to move in the opposite direction. This breathing pattern is likely caused by looking forward which makes it hard to breathe which means your turn your head in two planes to "find" air (instead of water). IMO, I would not focus on your arms until your head position and breathing movement change and the snaking is eliminated. I say this because the snaking is causing you to swim very flat and your pulling pattern being outside your shoulders because of your breathing (surprised you don't have shoulder issues). The snorkel will help with head position. Kicking with one arm in the streamline position (and other arm at your side) and learning to breathe by rotating your shoulders/hips (with some additional head rotation) AND keeping your head in contact with your leading arm while breathing will help. This should not be a fast drill, so if you are not a good kicker, fins may be helpful. Paul

RE: Made a big change, would appreciate feedback

Former Member — Thu, 10 Jan 2019 17:05:43 GMT

Thanks Calvin. This is really helpful and I figure it will be a while to generate these three things. Clearly my head turning has metatiscized into a variety of problems. I will try to get that breathing under control, then work on combining what I do right on arms. I do have a Finis center snorkel but sadly its new from Amazon. Basically you have a good left arm underwater recovery coupled with a poor above water recovery coupled with a good right arm above water recovery coupled with a poor right arm under water recovery! Definitely some rotating kick one arm up one arm down focusing on head position and ROLLING your body to breathe (as opposed to turning head) would help. Adding SOME swimming with a snorkel (center mount, I recommend FINIS brand, and if you can go back in time get one of the version 1.0 snorkels ) will help you feel your stroke without the head movement but only do this once you can keep your head in the right place! Otherwise you are just training a bad habit!

RE: Made a big change, would appreciate feedback

Windrath — Thu, 10 Jan 2019 08:22:06 GMT

DSG, Your head movement is a huge amount of the issue. I agree with Redbird that you want to"tuck" your chin - looking down will help alot (a similar position to lying on the floor looking up at the ceiling). The cause of your snaking is the way your head moves when you breathe. Your body will go where your head leads it and, because your head moves out of alignment, it causes your hips to move in the opposite direction. This breathing pattern is likely caused by looking forward which makes it hard to breathe which means your turn your head in two planes to "find" air (instead of water). IMO, I would not focus on your arms until your head position and breathing movement change and the snaking is eliminated. I say this because the snaking is causing you to swim very flat and your pulling pattern being outside your shoulders because of your breathing (surprised you don't have shoulder issues). The snorkel will help with head position. Kicking with one arm in the streamline position (and other arm at your side) and learning to breathe by rotating your shoulders/hips (with some additional head rotation) AND keeping your head in contact with your leading arm while breathing will help. This should not be a fast drill, so if you are not a good kicker, fins may be helpful. Paul

RE: Made a big change, would appreciate feedback

Former Member — Thu, 10 Jan 2019 08:17:45 GMT

Thanks Paul, going to apply myself and work on this and the drill. It's nice to know at least where the mountain is that I need to overcome. I was watching this clip today in an attempt to have something to emulate. Is this more in line with how I should be rotating and breathing? www.youtube.com/watch DSG - Calvin and I might disagree on this, but here goes. Your head must rotate during the breathing motion with the idea of keeping one goggle in the water when you breath. My chin ends up about 45 degrees from looking straight forward. To my way of thinking, your shoulder rotation is also about 45 degrees which is not enough to get your mouth out of the water. Turning your head an additional amount (up to 45 degrees) helps your mouth clear the water so you can breathe.. You never want to be looking at the ceiling or having both goggles out of the water unless the water is extremely rough. This video is a close example of how I suggest you practice this: www.youtube.com/watch. NOTE: this is a drill to help you work on just the head rotation. When you put the entire stroke together, you want much less body rotation. I like this drill because the lead arm balances your body and you can go quite slow without "drowning" and really isolate your head movement. Another note - I don't like her chin/head position, but that is just my thinking. :) There is another similar drill with both arms at your side which would is the next progression when you feel good body balance and good head rotation. Hope this helps.

RE: Made a big change, would appreciate feedback

Windrath — Thu, 10 Jan 2019 04:48:34 GMT

Short answer regarding the video - Yes, they illustrate the head staying in line as well as shoulder & head rotation. Personal preference is that their chins are "open" too much and they don't look down enough. They "get away" with it though. :) As was mentioned in another of the posts, when you set up a practice, break it down into 3-5 sub-sets and focus on something different in each one. At some point, start to combine elements. trying to work on lots of things will frustrate you and could lead to other stuff happening. Good Luck

RE: Made a big change, would appreciate feedback

Windrath — Thu, 10 Jan 2019 02:00:54 GMT

DSG - Calvin and I might disagree on this, but here goes. Your head must rotate during the breathing motion with the idea of keeping one goggle in the water when you breath. My chin ends up about 45 degrees from looking straight forward. To my way of thinking, your shoulder rotation is also about 45 degrees which is not enough to get your mouth out of the water. Turning your head an additional amount (up to 45 degrees) helps your mouth clear the water so you can breathe.. You never want to be looking at the ceiling or having both goggles out of the water unless the water is extremely rough. This video is a close example of how I suggest you practice this: www.youtube.com/watch. NOTE: this is a drill to help you work on just the head rotation. When you put the entire stroke together, you want much less body rotation. I like this drill because the lead arm balances your body and you can go quite slow without "drowning" and really isolate your head movement. Another note - I don't like her chin/head position, but that is just my thinking. :) There is another similar drill with both arms at your side which would is the next progression when you feel good body balance and good head rotation. Hope this helps.

RE: Made a big change, would appreciate feedback

Calvin S — Wed, 09 Jan 2019 12:44:50 GMT

https://youtu.be/NNXOjJUIass So I made a very short video on my own today. I think I will ask for help in making a longer one next week when I am back in the US if this isn't enough. But I was surprised at the disconnect between what I *thought* I was doing, and what I see in the very short video which I tried to do a couple angles on. Its pretty clear my fundamentals are in need of all around attention and the snaking problem I *think* is due to some level of crossover/fitness/breathing problems. Would love to have one or two things to really work on and nail down as I don't think I can learn more than one or two fundamentals at once. First quick observations: Your left arm has a low elbow/arm on your recovery (looks sort of like you are "swinging" it, which will also send your body in that direction causing some "snaking") Your right arm is recovering way outside your body underwater. You almost have a ninety degree angle with your upper arm/shoulder and lower arm. I have attached some pictures. 11793 Your head seems to always be moving. Try to keep it still when not breathing (sometimes overlooked fact: you don't really turn your head so much as rotate your body so your mouth just peeks above water to grab a breath. You actually don't even need the whole mouth to exit the water, because there is a natural air pocket/bubble that forms as you move through the water and you can pull air in from it!). I don't see much crossover (maybe a little on your left arm as you finish under your body, but NONE on your right arm (see above analysis of underwater recover).

RE: Made a big change, would appreciate feedback

Former Member — Wed, 09 Jan 2019 11:21:21 GMT

RE: Made a big change, would appreciate feedback

Former Member — Wed, 09 Jan 2019 07:56:26 GMT

Thank you Redbird. I think I will try to work on the head mostly to start and work Calvin's comments on the arms when I think I can handle it. DSG - You seem to be keeping your chin up, looking forward, which keeps your head high. Keep the head neutral, aligned with your back looking at the bottom, and this will relax your neck and upper back. Calvin's insights are spot on as well.

RE: Made a big change, would appreciate feedback

Calvin S — Wed, 09 Jan 2019 07:44:31 GMT

Basically you have a good left arm underwater recovery coupled with a poor above water recovery coupled with a good right arm above water recovery coupled with a poor right arm under water recovery! Definitely some rotating kick one arm up one arm down focusing on head position and ROLLING your body to breathe (as opposed to turning head) would help. Adding SOME swimming with a snorkel (center mount, I recommend FINIS brand, and if you can go back in time get one of the version 1.0 snorkels ) will help you feel your stroke without the head movement but only do this once you can keep your head in the right place! Otherwise you are just training a bad habit!

RE: Made a big change, would appreciate feedback

Former Member — Wed, 09 Jan 2019 06:07:24 GMT

Thanks Calvin. Really appreciate the feedback. Just so I'm understanding it: 1. Work on keeping head still and peeking it out to grab some air 2. Left arm recovery needs to keep elbow much higher. 3. Right arm recovery is a problem First quick observations: Your left arm has a low elbow/arm on your recovery (looks sort of like you are "swinging" it, which will also send your body in that direction causing some "snaking") Your right arm is recovering way outside your body underwater. You almost have a ninety degree angle with your upper arm/shoulder and lower arm. I have attached some pictures. 11793 Your head seems to always be moving. Try to keep it still when not breathing (sometimes overlooked fact: you don't really turn your head so much as rotate your body so your mouth just peeks above water to grab a breath. You actually don't even need the whole mouth to exit the water, because there is a natural air pocket/bubble that forms as you move through the water and you can pull air in from it!). I don't see much crossover (maybe a little on your left arm as you finish under your body, but NONE on your right arm (see above analysis of underwater recover).

RE: Made a big change, would appreciate feedback

Redbird Alum — Wed, 09 Jan 2019 02:27:00 GMT

DSG - You seem to be keeping your chin up, looking forward, which keeps your head high. Keep the head neutral, aligned with your back looking at the bottom, and this will relax your neck and upper back. Calvin's insights are spot on as well.

RE: Made a big change, would appreciate feedback

Former Member — Fri, 28 Dec 2018 13:23:47 GMT

Camera arrives today! looks like I took the mantra of elegant swimming thr wrong way and I need to put my vim in there Hmmm - Glad I asked. 26-28 strokes per 50 meters is really low and suggests alot of glide is taking place with each stroke. Video will be interesting. :)

RE: Made a big change, would appreciate feedback

Windrath — Fri, 28 Dec 2018 12:11:23 GMT

Regarding the Bow and Arrow drill...without sculling, one side is much weaker than the other. Is there a way one usually focuses on rectifying that? The weakness on one side relative to the other side could be due to a number of factors: are you properly aligned, is your pull different on that side, timing of the rotation is either earlier or later, your head in a different position. B & A drill is an advanced drill and to do it well means good body balance, alignment/tight core, rotation, and the ability for the arms and shoulders to move independently from the torso. On another topic - we never asked what your stroke count per length is. Stroke count can tell alot about efficiency and pulling pattern. Caution though, it is possible to have a good stroke count and still snake through the water. Just curious. Paul

RE: Made a big change, would appreciate feedback

Former Member — Fri, 28 Dec 2018 07:55:45 GMT

Hi Calvin, 50 meters Olympic. 26-28 Long course meters? Short course meters? Or short course yards?