How much do triathlete need to learn about swimming?

RE: How much do triathlete need to learn about swimming?

harperfish — Fri, 20 Apr 2012 11:47:05 GMT

Hi, I'm writing for Swimmer magazine about integrating triathletes into pool workouts. What has been your experience with tris, both the races and the people? Send your phone number/email if you what to share your thoughts. Regards,

RE: How much do triathlete need to learn about swimming?

Former Member — Thu, 12 Apr 2012 16:54:52 GMT

There is a tri in Santa Barbara that is 1 mile swim, 34 mile bike, 10 mile run. I've done this one and it's terrific. It didn't hurt that I used to live there and knew every inch of the bike leg.

RE: How much do triathlete need to learn about swimming?

Former Member — Thu, 12 Apr 2012 16:43:36 GMT

is it just me or does anyone else believe flipturns contribute to your swim fitness and therefore triathletes will actually improve their swim leg if committed to flipturns in their training... God, don't even start with me on some triathletes and flip turning. I will join in on the bagging in some cases on this topic, I simply do not get the "there are no walls in OW so I am going to stop before the wall, turtle around, and start from a dead stop." As if that is a better way to train, or better yet that those that flip turn are actually swimming shorter distances and therefore aren't training as well. Some triathletes suffer from this myopia that triathlons are not actually swimming, biking or running, but one sport consisting of S/B/R, so they refuse to train as swimmers do, or bikers do. But usually the thread evolution on BT goes something like "I can't flip turn," to "I am poor at them" to "Thanks for encouraging me to flip turn, I do them now and am a better swimmer" Although there are those that are steadfast in their belief that flip turning is not relevant There is a tri in Santa Barbara that is 1 mile swim, 34 mile bike, 10 mile run. There are also new tri formats being developed, the Leadman 125 and 250, in Vegas and Bend Oregon with 2.5K or 5K swims

RE: How much do triathlete need to learn about swimming?

Former Member — Thu, 12 Apr 2012 15:53:30 GMT

in addition, i located a triathlon I am committed to doing in the very near future. elephantmantriathlon.com/ elephant butte, new mexico - 1 mile swim; 26 mile bike; 6 mile run - late september it is one of the very few mile open water swims in new mexico. I wish more of them had the mile swim with this bike and run

RE: How much do triathlete need to learn about swimming?

Former Member — Thu, 12 Apr 2012 15:48:03 GMT

is it just me or does anyone else believe flipturns contribute to your swim fitness and therefore triathletes will actually improve their swim leg if committed to flipturns in their training...

RE: How much do triathlete need to learn about swimming?

samo — Thu, 12 Apr 2012 05:23:58 GMT

elephantmantriathlon.com/ elephant butte, new mexico - 1 mile swim; 26 mile bike; 6 mile run - late september Those seem pretty close to Olympic Triathlon race distances which are 1500m (~100m short of a mile), 24.8 mile bike and 6.2 mile run... Hopefully, you'll see more of them in New Mexico in the future! Good luck!

RE: How much do triathlete need to learn about swimming?

Former Member — Thu, 12 Apr 2012 05:06:27 GMT

I've done this one and it's terrific. It didn't hurt that I used to live there and knew every inch of the bike leg. It is probably my favorite race. Longer than an Oly, not quite a half, but enough swimming to put some space in between me and the others. The bike is tough though, as is the first half of the run. I imploded there last year.

RE: How much do triathlete need to learn about swimming?

aquageek — Thu, 12 Apr 2012 04:55:15 GMT

RE: How much do triathlete need to learn about swimming?

Former Member — Wed, 11 Apr 2012 16:53:56 GMT

Finding sarcasm, on the other hand... :duel::ohyeah:

RE: How much do triathlete need to learn about swimming?

Former Member — Wed, 11 Apr 2012 16:41:11 GMT

Brilliant, kind Sir! How fortunate I am to have been granted a pass by you! I shall spread news of your generosity! Noobs from the farthest reaches of the internet shall come to bask in the glory of your posting genius! You might find Slowtwitch more your liking. I doubt it. The internet is an awful mess of idiocy. Trying to find any semblance of reason is like playing the lottery. Finding sarcasm, on the other hand...

RE: How much do triathlete need to learn about swimming?

Former Member — Wed, 11 Apr 2012 15:43:47 GMT

I've done quite a few tris over the years and I sorta agree with you. However, the bluster is usually not on par with the actual training. lol. So true of many, but in the older (50+) AGs I think we have a more realistic view of what we've put in, and what we can expect back. I also think MOP and BOP are two terms that need to be banished. I don't know why they are used so often, other than to simply annoy me. I absolutely agree, but I think they need to add RUF (Right Up Front) so I can boast about my swim results.

RE: How much do triathlete need to learn about swimming?

Former Member — Wed, 11 Apr 2012 15:03:02 GMT

You know what they say about people who assume? (except it isnt making an as* out of me) Since you are relatively new to this forum, and apparently swimming as reflected in your other posts, I'll give you a pass on this one. You might find Slowtwitch more your liking. And before you go off, let me say that some of my best friends are mountain bikers

RE: How much do triathlete need to learn about swimming?

Former Member — Wed, 11 Apr 2012 14:52:53 GMT

If they are part of the 2% that really want to take their competition to the next level, the answer is "quite a lot." You might be surprised to find that there a good number of MOP & BOP that take it very seriously. Even the old farts like me train & race so hard we are completely blown at the end of the race. I joke about going for a nice bike ride and a bit of a jog after the swim, but I can assure you that racing the swim is easy part. I always had to spend the rest of the race trying hold my place. It takes a lot of mental toughness to continue to push the pain limit as people pass you. Thankfully, the field in my AG is relatively small.

RE: How much do triathlete need to learn about swimming?

Former Member — Wed, 11 Apr 2012 12:42:13 GMT

I'll assume that this is not a serious question. You know what they say about people who assume? (except it isnt making an as* out of me)

RE: How much do triathlete need to learn about swimming?

aquageek — Wed, 11 Apr 2012 11:32:52 GMT

You might be surprised to find that there a good number of MOP & BOP that take it very seriously. Even the old farts like me train & race so hard we are completely blown at the end of the race. I joke about going for a nice bike ride and a bit of a jog after the swim, but I can assure you that racing the swim is easy part. I always had to spend the rest of the race trying hold my place. It takes a lot of mental toughness to continue to push the pain limit as people pass you. Thankfully, the field in my AG is relatively small. I've done quite a few tris over the years and I sorta agree with you. However, the bluster is usually not on par with the actual training. I also think MOP and BOP are two terms that need to be banished. I don't know why they are used so often, other than to simply annoy me.

RE: How much do triathlete need to learn about swimming?

aquageek — Wed, 11 Apr 2012 09:32:44 GMT

I train with a few very accomplished triathletes. I only call them triathletes because it fits this topic. But, they are all really swimmers, bikers, and runners. They train like swimmers. The answer to the question of "how much do triathletes need to know about swimming" is really dependent on how competitive they want to be. If they are part of the 98% of triathletes who simply want to finish a race so they can put a sticker on their car and call themselves triathletes, the answer is "not much." If they are part of the 2% that really want to take their competition to the next level, the answer is "quite a lot."

RE: How much do triathlete need to learn about swimming?

Former Member — Wed, 11 Apr 2012 09:27:16 GMT

Just my .02, I think that anything that helps someone adopt a healthier lifestyle, even if that starts out as "just finishing" is a really good thing, and not something to be scoffed at. I personally think that finishing is a perfectly appropriate goal on a site like BT, which is called after all beginner triathlete, and where many people coming to tris (it's the new "thing") are middle aged, or have been out of competition since high school, etc. I also personally think that just wanting to finish is perfectly fine no matter where you happen to lie on the training spectrum. My first tri, and my first HIM, and my first IM, my goal was simply to finish. And my first tri was a super sprint (albeit with a .5 mile swim). For the longer races I had time goals as well, but goal #1 was get across the line. I started at 38, hadn't swam competitively since high school, had never run a 5K in my life, etc etc etc Since then I've lost about 75 pounds due to the healthier lifestyle. But I still haven't won a tri, so I suppose I should just stop altogether. I am glad I didn't give up tris because I wasn't in it to win it from the first one. And because I don't make very good tacos. ETA - I will give on this one though, someone just posted in a thread I am on that they don't do flip turns or push off the wall as they "don't want free speed." Can't defend that one.....

RE: How much do triathlete need to learn about swimming?

Former Member — Wed, 11 Apr 2012 08:00:22 GMT

Athough I swore off this thread, it's getting interesting. Just trying to clarify, I don't think winning (being competitive) is a requirement to be a serious triathlete, or take swimming seriously. That's sort of a jaded viewpoint. One could, without thinking about it, say the exact same thing about OW swimmers that go do an alcatraz crossing, or a pier to pier, then check it off the list. My impression is that there are many more serious people in both tris and OW swimming, by an order of magnitude, than a 2% that wants to cross off a bucket list (there are those as well, as there are in every sport). If having to be competitive were true, it wouldn't explain my story very well. But maybe I can just go home after work and eat chips rather than driving to masters workout.....:banana: I am one of those that is one of the first out of the water, then spend the rest of the race trying to hold off those weaker swimmers that can bike and run faster than me. I'm getting better at it, this year I was 11th out of the water (AG), then 54 and 72 after bike and run at Oceanside 70.3. Last year I was 16th out of the water, and then 100-something after the bike and 150-something after the run. I am "competitive" on the swim, but it's not an open water swim. It's a swim/bike/run. I swim 300K plus yards a year, and it's just enough to keep me out front for a little while (and nets me a top 30% or so at swim only events). I know folks that swim faster on less. But it's a helluva lot more than most people I see on BT and other boards, so that part of the point is fairly valid. Personally, I am just of the training opinion that being in good swim shape doesn't just get you a good swim time, it sets up a good day. If you get to the bike and/or run totally gassed, a fast swim is irrelevant. But I have worked my a$$ off the last year to get better at biking and running while trying to maintain a semblance of swim fitness. There are only 3 (sometimes 5) podium slots. I'd have to go at least an hour faster overall to smell the podium at a 70.3 (and every year seems to get faster). That does not mean I don't take the swim (very) seriously, and enter every race trying to go as fast as I can, which in every case is not as fast as others. I really want to win, I am just not fast enough to actually do so

RE: How much do triathlete need to learn about swimming?

Former Member — Wed, 11 Apr 2012 06:45:33 GMT

On the other hand I will say something that I do like about the tri community is that most of the people are coming to it as adults and are doing it BECAUSE of the challenge. They know they won't necessarily be good at it yet aren't afraid to go out there and do it. Or to go out there and suck :-) This is in contrast to a good chunk of swimmers on my own squad who won't go to a meet, or won't do this event or that event because they don't think they will do well at it or because it's hard. It' is a totally different mindset actually. I think the unfortunate part is that the swimmers might be missing out on some fun and rewarding experiences. This is a good and sound observation on the difference between the two groups. And geek kind of finished off the point talking about the difference between the 2% of triathletes (probably more like 10% ) who really want to race, compete and win. So swimmers have something to learn from triathletes: Just do the event. Don't worry so much about being fast. And triathletes ahve something to learn from swimmers: Don't be a poser. You didn't compete in an Ironman, you completed an Ironman. You can still be proud of the accomplishment though!

RE: How much do triathlete need to learn about swimming?

aquageek — Wed, 11 Apr 2012 04:58:15 GMT

My impression is that there are many more serious people in both tris and OW swimming, by an order of magnitude, than a 2% that wants to cross off a bucket list (there are those as well, as there are in every sport). My 2% figure was hyperbole but not by much. If you read the beginner tri forums they are chock full of "just want to finish" comments, which I cannot understand. Just finishing implies defeat. Even if you finish DFL you should give it your all and not just be satisfied you crossed the finish line. The vast majority of triathlons are not IMs, HIMs or Olys. They are sprints, or, worse yet, super sprints. If your goal is to simply finish one of those, time for some new goals, like developing the next great Taco Bell entre.

RE: How much do triathlete need to learn about swimming?

Former Member — Tue, 10 Apr 2012 10:42:11 GMT

If you were to walk, say, half a mile, during the marathon portion of an Ironman event, does that mean you did not complete it? I'll assume that this is not a serious question.

RE: How much do triathlete need to learn about swimming?

Former Member — Tue, 10 Apr 2012 09:57:54 GMT

The last time I checked the sport is SWIM, BIKE, RUN "A triathlon is a multi-sport event involving the completion of three continuous and sequential endurance events. While many variations of the sport exist, triathlon, in its most popular form, involves swimming, cycling, and running in immediate succession over various distances." - Wiki If you walk the swim, walk the bike and walk the run, then it is a walk, not a multisport event. If you were to walk, say, half a mile, during the marathon portion of an Ironman event, does that mean you did not complete it?

RE: How much do triathlete need to learn about swimming?

Former Member — Sun, 08 Apr 2012 16:53:54 GMT

How much do triathletes need to learn about swimming? Ones goals in a triathlon are most relevent. If someone is trying to complete the entire distance of the event, "survival" - or competence or adequacy - is all that is required of their swimming ability. Ditto the bike and the run. If you walk through a pool or float on your back, so be it. I dont see anything wrong with this. During my first triathlon I swam with my head above water the whole time - I believe they call that 'tarzanning'. Ones own subjective measure is the only important issue when it comes to completion of amatuer atheltic events - Am I happy with my performance today? Now, if one is trying to win a triathlon, their swim has to be pretty darn good. There is a saying - one cannot win a triathlon during the swim leg, but one can certainly lose the race during the swim leg. As a bit of a side note, it seems like pure swimmers give triathletes a lot of grief. Cyclists do this too (obviously not every swimmer/cyclist does this). I never really understood it. Haters gonna hate, I guess. :)

RE: How much do triathlete need to learn about swimming?

Former Member — Sun, 08 Apr 2012 10:20:52 GMT

From these comments I believe the triathletes in my area are smarter than most. That's why I added "at least on forums". Obviously you don't notice the triathlete who just concentrates on training and prepares quietly. You just notice the ones on triathlons forums who say "I decided to to my first triathlon next week. Does anybody know how to swim?":D

RE: How much do triathlete need to learn about swimming?

Former Member — Sun, 08 Apr 2012 07:05:09 GMT

"I intend to be one of the first five of my age group"......hmm In some local races there may only be 5 in my AG