Wetsuit vs Non-Wetsuit Awards

RE: Wetsuit vs Non-Wetsuit Awards

FindingMyInnerFish — Sat, 24 Dec 2011 09:57:59 GMT

I was a little peeved at the Nubble Light swim this year when I realised at the awards that wetsuits had age group awards and nakeds only had one overall awards in each gender. I thought I was the only naked woman but lo and behold someone must have changed divisions at the last moment and beat be by about 2 minutes.....:bolt: That definitely seems backward! If they're going to have separate awards, I'd think they should acknowledge the greater challenge the greater challenge of not wearing a wetsuit! My experience: don't own a wetsuit and haven't ever used one (even just to try them out). No OW swim I've ever done was cold enough for me to feel I'd need one, and in some, I figured I'd be too warm in a wetsuit. In one swim, the water temp was said to be in the 60s (it didn't seem that cold except in pockets here and there) but it was such a hot day, I actually welcomed the cooler water temp. In all the o.w. events I've been in (far fewer than many of you), there was no distinction between wetsuits and "naked" for awards either in age group or overall. Didn't much matter to me. In the larger races, I'm not fast enough for awards either way, and in smaller ones, my age group is sparsely enough populated that I manage to get awards by default (3rd out of ... whattyaknow--three!). I won't say I'll never get or use a wetsuit, but given how constricting I've heard people say they are, I'm not in any hurry to get one. I like the freedom of just being in a swimsuit. The aquathlon I plan on in June--an NYCSwim event--has the above-mentioned rules about briefs/jammers/wetsuits only for those doing just the swim; those doing the aquathlon will be allowed to wear wetsuits and such if the water temp is below a certain cut-off (I forget what that is). They say they follow USAT rules for the swim/run. However, I don't plan to take advantage of the latitude given to those in the aquathlon. I doubt I'll need a wetsuit, plus I think it'll be an easier swim/run transition w/out fighting my way out of one. As for awards, announce the policy in advance, and it should reduce, but likely won't eliminate complaints. But at least people will be informed and can choose to enter/not enter. And if they enter and complain, you can always point to the entry info and tell them to take a :chillpill:

RE: Wetsuit vs Non-Wetsuit Awards

Cleon — Sat, 24 Dec 2011 08:19:46 GMT

When I was younger cold water was not a problem. I went into water that had ice on top without a Wet Suit. I worked out in very cold water. Now I am almost 70 years old and still working out. I found THE OLDER YOU ARE THE COLDER YOU ARE. As you get older you will also experience this. I will be swimming the Alcatraz Island swim in July water temp around 60 with a wet suit this year. For me it is not the ribin that counts it is I DID IT I still can. This is something I want to do until I cannot any more. Remember you will be 70 some day too, and may want to do open water events. Don't let the cold keep you away.

RE: Wetsuit vs Non-Wetsuit Awards

orca1946 — Thu, 13 Oct 2011 05:15:15 GMT

Do they take the temps in the same spot each year?

RE: Wetsuit vs Non-Wetsuit Awards

Former Member — Thu, 06 Oct 2011 15:30:00 GMT

RE: Wetsuit vs Non-Wetsuit Awards

Former Member — Thu, 06 Oct 2011 13:03:10 GMT

so it does seem that the serp temp follows a rather predictable sine curve. i am glad that my swims there have been on cooler days. i think all the fowl poop concerns are overblown.

RE: Wetsuit vs Non-Wetsuit Awards

Former Member — Tue, 04 Oct 2011 13:31:16 GMT

looks like in order to "search within a thread" you need to be registered, which i am. just emailed a friend who is a board member of the serp club.... i'll post his response when i receive it.

RE: Wetsuit vs Non-Wetsuit Awards

Former Member — Tue, 04 Oct 2011 12:16:10 GMT

Evmo - the link within your link 29 page FRSA pdf seems to allow neoprene caps, but its probably mute as I expect the serps will be in the upper 60's. i've swum in the serp only twice.... 9/3/10, and 9/20/09. both times the water was below 60.

RE: Wetsuit vs Non-Wetsuit Awards

orca1946 — Tue, 04 Oct 2011 06:54:04 GMT

fina - fima = ilfitting +illogical :worms::2cents:

RE: Wetsuit vs Non-Wetsuit Awards

evmo — Tue, 04 Oct 2011 01:03:33 GMT

OK, hope this settle things re: wetsuits in the Olympics. I asked someone who would know, and he pointed me to the FINA bylaws, section 8. In particular, section 8.4: From June 1, 2010 Open Water swimwear for both men and women shall not cover the neck, extend past the shoulder, nor shall extend below the ankle. All Open Water swimsuits shall comply with the FINA Criteria for Materials and Approval Procedures. In other words, they can wear textile bodysuits, but not wetsuits.

RE: Wetsuit vs Non-Wetsuit Awards

Former Member — Mon, 03 Oct 2011 16:05:20 GMT

Chaos, don't you think the '12 Olympics will follow FINA and not allow wetsuits in the 10K? Right?!?! Maybe he's talking about the Special Olympics?

RE: Wetsuit vs Non-Wetsuit Awards

mjtyson — Mon, 03 Oct 2011 11:59:04 GMT

The '08 olympic 10k was held in a rowing basin, and '12 will be in the serpentine. neither venue does justice to the phrase "open water". i doubt that any major network will have complete live coverage. the serp is a bit chilly, so i expect that wetsuits will be worn. Chaos, don't you think the '12 Olympics will follow FINA and not allow wetsuits in the 10K?

RE: Wetsuit vs Non-Wetsuit Awards

Former Member — Mon, 03 Oct 2011 10:19:48 GMT

the serp will likely be under 60 degrees. i doubt they will be wearing briefs... pros don't like being chilly. it's really that cold even in summer? I was in london over summer 08 and saw people swimming there but just couldn't bring myself to get in. So much duck and goose poo and slimy stuff.

RE: Wetsuit vs Non-Wetsuit Awards

Former Member — Mon, 03 Oct 2011 09:35:53 GMT

Chaos, don't you think the '12 Olympics will follow FINA and not allow wetsuits in the 10K? the serp will likely be under 60 degrees. i doubt they will be wearing briefs... pros don't like being chilly.

RE: Wetsuit vs Non-Wetsuit Awards

evmo — Mon, 03 Oct 2011 08:25:55 GMT

the serp will likely be under 60 degrees. i doubt they will be wearing briefs... pros don't like being chilly. The UK, despite being the birthplace of "channel rules," does have a tradition of wetsuited pro OW swims, e.g. the British Gas Great Swim Series. So it wouldn't surprise me if the Olympics are wetsuited, though it would disappoint me.

RE: Wetsuit vs Non-Wetsuit Awards

Former Member — Mon, 03 Oct 2011 05:47:57 GMT

The '08 olympic 10k was held in a rowing basin, and '12 will be in the serpentine. neither venue does justice to the phrase "open water". i doubt that any major network will have complete live coverage. the serp is a bit chilly, so i expect that wetsuits will be worn. Can I "like" this comment? next they'll be putting a bloody lane line in.

RE: Wetsuit vs Non-Wetsuit Awards

Former Member — Sat, 01 Oct 2011 16:26:26 GMT

I don't really care for OW swimming that much, but those NYC OW rules for swim suits are just ridiculous!! many of the people who work the events are volunteers. it would be unreasonable to have everyone familiar with the different models of tech suits (yes they were also produced as jammers), but easy enough to differentiate between a brief and a jammer. blame it on the suit manufacturers not the event organizers who are trying to maintain a (sea) level playing field.

RE: Wetsuit vs Non-Wetsuit Awards

Former Member — Sat, 01 Oct 2011 13:55:51 GMT

yea,yea, yea, that sounds like an open water snob. There is nothing wrong with letting guys wear jammers in pool or open water races dave. for your own events, you are welcome to establish any rules you like. we allow jammers for 8 bridges so your snobbery charge is off target (in this instance)... but with only a few swimmers for each stage, its easy to keep tech suits out.

RE: Wetsuit vs Non-Wetsuit Awards

Former Member — Sat, 01 Oct 2011 13:27:36 GMT

there is a higher standard than FINA yea,yea, yea, that sounds like an open water snob. There is nothing wrong with letting guys wear jammers in pool or open water races dave.

RE: Wetsuit vs Non-Wetsuit Awards

Former Member — Sat, 01 Oct 2011 13:18:42 GMT

If they followed the fina guidelines where jammers had to have the fina 2010 logo on it, then it wouldn't be hard to know which suits weren't illegal jammers. there is a higher standard than FINA

RE: Wetsuit vs Non-Wetsuit Awards

Former Member — Sat, 01 Oct 2011 11:24:07 GMT

many of the people who work the events are volunteers. it would be unreasonable to have everyone familiar with the different models of tech suits (yes they were also produced as jammers), but easy enough to differentiate between a brief and a jammer. blame it on the suit manufacturers not the event organizers who are trying to maintain a (sea) level playing field. If they followed the fina guidelines where jammers had to have the fina 2010 logo on it, then it wouldn't be hard to know which suits weren't illegal jammers. I agree with James, not allowing jammers for men is a silly rule

RE: Wetsuit vs Non-Wetsuit Awards

evmo — Sat, 01 Oct 2011 10:11:47 GMT

blame it on the suit manufacturers not the event organizers who are trying to maintain a (sea) level playing field. Ironic that someone brings up the NYC Swim policy... seems to me, the relevant issue in the context of this thread is not jammers vs. briefs, but the fact that wetsuits aren't distinguished from skins in the results (in water 68F or below). So I get Dave's point about a level playing field - but only in the narrow sense.

RE: Wetsuit vs Non-Wetsuit Awards

Chris Stevenson — Fri, 30 Sep 2011 12:53:47 GMT

Should wetsuit swimmers be entitled to the exact same type of awards as non-wetsuit swimmers? The problem this poses as an organizer is that suddenly you need to purchase twice the number of awards to accommodate a separate division (wetsuit), even though everyone's swimming the same race. IMO: same awards. Don't wetsuit wearers pay the same entry fee as the "naked" swimmers? But I don't feel strongly about it. I agree with the others, whatever you do advertise it on your race entry forms. (But I disagree that then people won't complain. Anyone can complain about anything.)

RE: Wetsuit vs Non-Wetsuit Awards

Chris Stevenson — Fri, 30 Sep 2011 12:50:39 GMT

the only obstacle I saw was a lot of ducks Don't disrespect the duck. We have a few with quite an uppity attitude in our university lake. And don't get me started on the Canadian geese. I wouldn't want to swim through them; they routinely chase people off the sidewalk. And there are several curious and unexplained muggings at night near the lake...

RE: Wetsuit vs Non-Wetsuit Awards

Former Member — Fri, 30 Sep 2011 11:47:21 GMT

Open water swimming needs to allow for wetsuits to thrive as a sport to bring as many people out there as possible. Open water swimming will be a major Olymipic event in time. probably with non wetsuit races. The '08 olympic 10k was held in a rowing basin, and '12 will be in the serpentine. neither venue does justice to the phrase "open water". i doubt that any major network will have complete live coverage. the serp is a bit chilly, so i expect that wetsuits will be worn.

RE: Wetsuit vs Non-Wetsuit Awards

jaadams1 — Fri, 30 Sep 2011 11:24:37 GMT

For most of the NYC swim series, jammers aren't allowed: www.nycswim.org/.../FAQ.aspx I don't really care for OW swimming that much, but those NYC OW rules for swim suits are just ridiculous!!