How do you Pace yourself in Open Water?

RE: How do you Pace yourself in Open Water?

Former Member — Thu, 30 Jun 2011 15:07:38 GMT

I think the lack of a pace clock is largely why I feel like I can swim forever in open water(And the lack of flip-turns which keeps my oxygen). But that is when I am practicing. In the event I get caught up in the excitement and go out too fast. I've read about how a fast turnover is beneficial to OW. I don't measure my stroke rate or even my pace, but I feel like my turnover is markedly slower in OW. It feels natural for me to pause a bit more and make each stroke more sure as opposed to blasting through the waves. Que paso con eso?

RE: How do you Pace yourself in Open Water?

Former Member — Thu, 23 Jun 2011 16:06:08 GMT

I like your writing style, and you don't use smilies, the sign of an adult. Ha! Anyway, happy/unhappy can be considered perceived levels of exertion. For me, I know the pain point and how long I can hold at each pain point. The good thing about that in OW is that it is condition neutral. So, whatever mother nature throws your way you always know how hard/easy you need to go, based on how you feel. I'll try to start thinking about it like that. I think you can probably drive yourself nuts comparing pool to open water. I used to get frustrated by the disparity in times until I realized that the same faster and slower people in the pool were also the same faster and slower folks in the OW. So, I just stopped worrying about the translation of times. I'm obsessed with my OW times because of cutoffs. I want to do Swim the Suck in 2012 (10-mile swim in a dam-controlled river. Usually no current, but last year there was. It depends on whether TVA decides to release water that day.) The cut-off for that event is 6 hours (36 minutes/mile). I can do one open water mile is 32-34 minutes, but that's too close for comfort. I am not in this to race the cutoff. I've never fully understood open water swimming in Arizona. Where do you do it? It would seem that in the mountains it would be cold and in the valley/desert it would be boiling and nasty? I'm probably wrong so tell me how it is out there please. My bro lives in Cave Creek but he thinks swimming is stupid so he is of no educational value to me. He thinks swimming is stupid? The high yesterday was 109, and it's only June. Swimming is the only non-stupid activity in AZ, IMAO. The mountains further north get cold, but the mountains in the Phoenix area are hot. But once you get wet, you can't feel the heat. Even 115 feels pleasant until you dry off. Open water swimming in Arizona is amazing. There are four lakes within an hour of Phoenix, each one more beautiful than the next. Bartlett Lake is in Cave Creek. This link has everything you need to know about finding a place for open water swimming in AZ: www.watergirl.co/.../open-water-swimming-arizona Here's my theory about your results. I think you skewed them with the tempo trainer. You started out with a friend and kept a roughly 1:55 pace. After your friend left, you went on your own and went a 2:07 pace. However, the biggest change between swims is not that your friend left. It's that you tried to use the tempo trainer to maintain your pace on the second swim--and set it at a pace that would give you a desired pace of 1:50. The key point here, though, is that that 1:50 pace is one you have measured in a pool--where there are walls (fastest you ever go) and a black line to keep you straight etc. I wonder what would have happened if you had used the tempo trainer at the same setting on your first swim with your friend. I suspect that you would have quickly fallen behind unless you ignored the tempo trainer. Excellent point.

RE: How do you Pace yourself in Open Water?

aquageek — Thu, 23 Jun 2011 12:28:35 GMT

I'm obsessed with my OW times because of cutoffs. I want to do Swim the Suck in 2012 (10-mile swim in a dam-controlled river. Usually no current, but last year there was. It depends on whether TVA decides to release water that day.) The cut-off for that event is 6 hours (36 minutes/mile). I can do one open water mile is 32-34 minutes, but that's too close for comfort. I am not in this to race the cutoff. I would not stress over this cutoff time. Even if the water release is small or not at all it is still a river with current. A training buddy of mine did it last year and he said it was long but not terrible.

RE: How do you Pace yourself in Open Water?

jbs — Thu, 23 Jun 2011 09:25:01 GMT

As Aquageek says, comparisons between pool and open water times will drive you crazy. In fact, because the conditions can play such a big part of open water, sometimes it's not even a good idea to compare times in open water from one day to the next. But, don't you think it's strange that my OW 100-yd pace would increase by 12 seconds when I don't have anyone to pace off of? Or that I'd be off by my pool pace by :15/100 using a tempo trainer under easy conditions? My OW race pace is only about 5 seconds off my pool race pace. It's the non-pacing practice swims where I really slow down. Here's my theory about your results. I think you skewed them with the tempo trainer. You started out with a friend and kept a roughly 1:55 pace. After your friend left, you went on your own and went a 2:07 pace. However, the biggest change between swims is not that your friend left. It's that you tried to use the tempo trainer to maintain your pace on the second swim--and set it at a pace that would give you a desired pace of 1:50. The key point here, though, is that that 1:50 pace is one you have measured in a pool--where there are walls (fastest you ever go) and a black line to keep you straight etc. I wonder what would have happened if you had used the tempo trainer at the same setting on your first swim with your friend. I suspect that you would have quickly fallen behind unless you ignored the tempo trainer.

RE: How do you Pace yourself in Open Water?

aquageek — Thu, 23 Jun 2011 08:47:36 GMT

When I'm swimming in OW, I perceive Happy vs. Unhappy far more acutely than I perceive exertion. In the beginning, I feel Unhappy, especially if the conditions are tough. Even though I *love* OWS, and I'm out there at least 1-2x/week, I usually feel scared in the beginning. The longer I swim, the happier I feel. Agreed. But, don't you think it's strange that my OW 100-yd pace would increase by 12 seconds when I don't have anyone to pace off of? Or that I'd be off by my pool pace by :15/100 using a tempo trainer under easy conditions? My OW race pace is only about 5 seconds off my pool race pace. It's the non-pacing practice swims where I really slow down. I like your writing style, and you don't use smilies, the sign of an adult. Anyway, happy/unhappy can be considered perceived levels of exertion. For me, I know the pain point and how long I can hold at each pain point. The good thing about that in OW is that it is condition neutral. So, whatever mother nature throws your way you always know how hard/easy you need to go, based on how you feel. I think you can probably drive yourself nuts comparing pool to open water. I used to get frustrated by the disparity in times until I realized that the same faster and slower people in the pool were also the same faster and slower folks in the OW. So, I just stopped worrying about the translation of times. I've never fully understood open water swimming in Arizona. Where do you do it? It would seem that in the mountains it would be cold and in the valley/desert it would be boiling and nasty? I'm probably wrong so tell me how it is out there please. My bro lives in Cave Creek but he thinks swimming is stupid so he is of no educational value to me.

RE: How do you Pace yourself in Open Water?

Former Member — Thu, 23 Jun 2011 05:13:45 GMT

The cut-off for that event is 6 hours (36 minutes/mile). I can do one open water mile is 32-34 minutes, but that's too close for comfort. I am not in this to race the cutoff. Katie, The the weakest swimmer last year, an older triathlete(close to 60) finished the swim in under 5 hours. He didn't have a wetsuit or what coaches would consider an efficient stroke. The swim course is easy to follow, plenty of kayaks and escort boats. You shouldn't have any trouble finishing the swim. If you are planning on doing the 2012 swim, your swimming should be even better by then. I love the river gorge area. I rode in one of the escort boats for part of the swim last year. One of the best views of the gorge area is on(in) the river.

RE: How do you Pace yourself in Open Water?

srcoyote — Thu, 23 Jun 2011 01:22:40 GMT

I'm hoping to do the Swim the Suck this year as well. For reference my typical per 100 yd pace in a pool is about 1:25-1:27. I just did the Chattanooga River Rat 4.5 race which is a little farther down stream and calculated an average of 1:20 per 100 yd. While there was no current to speak of at the beginning of the swim, it started to be a factor during the last mile. Also, I'm not sure the course went a full 4.5 miles. Those that have done both said the current during the Swim the Suck in October is typically more substantial.

RE: How do you Pace yourself in Open Water?

Former Member — Wed, 22 Jun 2011 15:26:20 GMT

When I'm fresh, my perceived exertion is 0, even if I'm swimming my fastest. Which would be an indication you are starting off at the right pace, unless you are talking about sprinting all out at the start and still have a perceived exertion of 0. In that case either you are running on adrenaline or you are capable of swimming much harder & faster

RE: How do you Pace yourself in Open Water?

Former Member — Wed, 22 Jun 2011 15:04:23 GMT

Thanks so much for the replies. My guess is you are getting some help in the form of drafting. On your own you don't get that and you swim slower. I'm not drafting. I get behind and then a little ahead. My buddy tends to swim off course, and I stay straight. It's the visual cue that helps me. I know I'm a faster swimmer, and somehow I can just *see* what it will take to keep up or pass him. When I swim alone or find myself alone in a race I pace by perceived level of exertion. It takes a while to figure this out but once you do have it figured out it works quite well. In other words, know your pain and suffering points. Tell me more about how you use perceived exertion. When I'm fresh, my perceived exertion is 0, even if I'm swimming my fastest. In the pool, I increase my stroke rate when I feel tired. In OW, that doesn't seem to work. My stroke gets shorter, and I experience more exertion without getting faster. When I'm swimming in OW, I perceive Happy vs. Unhappy far more acutely than I perceive exertion. In the beginning, I feel Unhappy, especially if the conditions are tough. Even though I *love* OWS, and I'm out there at least 1-2x/week, I usually feel scared in the beginning. The longer I swim, the happier I feel. When I try to do sprint sets in OW with no one to pace off of, I definitely perceive increased exertion. But my times don't show it. If I'm pacing off of someone, though, I intuitively know how to relax into speed. I would caution you against translating your times from the pool to open water. Walls and clear water and no currents/tide make a difference. Agreed. But, don't you think it's strange that my OW 100-yd pace would increase by 12 seconds when I don't have anyone to pace off of? Or that I'd be off by my pool pace by :15/100 using a tempo trainer under easy conditions? My OW race pace is only about 5 seconds off my pool race pace. It's the non-pacing practice swims where I really slow down.

RE: How do you Pace yourself in Open Water?

aquageek — Wed, 22 Jun 2011 11:07:55 GMT

When I swim alone or find myself alone in a race I pace by perceived level of exertion. It takes a while to figure this out but once you do have it figured out it works quite well. In other words, know your pain and suffering points. When I swim with my trustee kayak buddy we use a GPS watch which gives pace and she will keep on that pace, mostly. It's up to me to keep up. I would caution you against translating your times from the pool to open water. Walls and clear water and no currents/tide make a difference.

RE: How do you Pace yourself in Open Water?

knelson — Wed, 22 Jun 2011 05:10:21 GMT

OW practice swim with a friend who is close to my pace. We stayed together the whole time and varied the intensity of our practice. Our average pace was 1:55/100 yards. My guess is you are getting some help in the form of drafting. On your own you don't get that and you swim slower.

RE: How do you Pace yourself in Open Water?

Rykno — Wed, 22 Jun 2011 02:30:45 GMT

i helped the local triathlon club put out 6 bouys 200m apart +/-1m with a row boat and GPS and there is 278m from the last bouy to the edge of the lake och and it's 200m out to the first bouy too. I usually swim out to the first one with my watch running. check the time. anything under 3:00 and I am happy. I can then either swim 5x200 or 1000. if I stop at the 200's it's only long enough to look at my watch. if i swim a 1000 I only look at my watch at the end. the last 5 years I've been able to manage 1:30/100m in the lake. and in the pool I have been happy to swim under 1:20. this spring something has clicked, I am healthy all my teammates are healthy and swimming fast. now I swim sets on 1:25. today i swam 4100m in the lake in 51:11 which is 1:15 /100m. I had a wetsuit and the wind wasn't that bad going into it, but it felt like I was riding waves coming back. I looked at my watch at 200, 1200, ~1500, 2400, 3200, 4000 and 4100