Olympic pool swimmers and open-water swimming?

RE: Olympic pool swimmers and open-water swimming?

gdanner — Sun, 05 Jun 2011 04:12:41 GMT

People certainly do solo channel swims all four strokes, but I can see some practical difficulties with actual races: Back: How do you know where you're going? Fly: clashing arms ***: clashing legs (can you imagine a frog kick to the face with swedish goggles on?) Also...keeping legal strokes (due to waves) and monitoring that. No way you could have enough refs to watch and the water clarity would compound matters.

RE: Olympic pool swimmers and open-water swimming?

Former Member — Wed, 01 Jun 2011 15:19:38 GMT

Escort boat + peripheral vision, I would assume. Tina Neill is quite alive and well in (I think) Minnesota; perhaps someone can ask her. A small rear-view mirror attached to my patented Backstroke Snorkel, duh!!! forums.usms.org/blog.php

RE: Olympic pool swimmers and open-water swimming?

Former Member — Wed, 01 Jun 2011 15:06:01 GMT

Back: How do you know where you're going? I'm still waiting for reply to my post in this thread--some crossed the English Channel in backstroke.

RE: Olympic pool swimmers and open-water swimming?

Former Member — Wed, 01 Jun 2011 12:24:15 GMT

Oh, like aqua-gladiators. Awesome. Maybe Richard Branson will sponsor it. If there is a World Record in it, I'm sure he'd be interested

RE: Olympic pool swimmers and open-water swimming?

Former Member — Wed, 01 Jun 2011 12:16:58 GMT

I can see some practical difficulties with actual races: Back: How do you know where you're going? Fly: clashing arms ***: clashing legs (can you imagine a frog kick to the face with swedish goggles on?) Where's the problem? You can put them all into one race at the same time. It would be a great spectator sport

RE: Olympic pool swimmers and open-water swimming?

evmo — Wed, 01 Jun 2011 11:13:08 GMT

I'm still waiting for reply to my post in this thread--some crossed the English Channel in backstroke. Escort boat + peripheral vision, I would assume. Tina Neill is quite alive and well in (I think) Minnesota; perhaps someone can ask her.

RE: Olympic pool swimmers and open-water swimming?

Former Member — Wed, 01 Jun 2011 08:51:33 GMT

This is probably the best footage of open-water racing I've ever seen. It's from the 1-mile British Gas Great Salford Swim, which took place on May 25. www.greatswim.org/.../Default.aspx That is a great video! Ditto the best footage of open-water racing I have seen. Thanks for the link! Wouldn't it be interesting to have open water races for each individual style breaststroke, backstroke, butterfly?

RE: Olympic pool swimmers and open-water swimming?

evmo — Wed, 01 Jun 2011 08:21:16 GMT

Where's the problem? You can put them all into one race at the same time. It would be a great spectator sport Oh, like aqua-gladiators. Awesome. Maybe Richard Branson will sponsor it.

RE: Olympic pool swimmers and open-water swimming?

evmo — Wed, 01 Jun 2011 08:04:29 GMT

Wouldn't it be interesting to have open water races for each individual style breaststroke, backstroke, butterfly? People certainly do solo channel swims all four strokes, but I can see some practical difficulties with actual races: Back: How do you know where you're going? Fly: clashing arms ***: clashing legs (can you imagine a frog kick to the face with swedish goggles on?)

RE: Olympic pool swimmers and open-water swimming?

Former Member — Tue, 31 May 2011 14:26:43 GMT

The water temp was 14.4C (57.9F) with mid-50s air temp - pretty cold even for those guys. At those temps, wetsuits don't just make them a bit faster; it becomes a completely different race. It may make it a different race, but not a different sport. I don't think that the crowd could have been any more excited than they were. I'm not a cold water swimmer, but I did about an hour in the SF Bay at 53° this year with a bunch of people (sans wetsuit) that love it cold. I would think that swimming as hard as they were, keeping warm would not be a significant issue. Particularly for Stoychev who was in the Channel for 7 hours at similar temperatures.

RE: Olympic pool swimmers and open-water swimming?

Former Member — Tue, 31 May 2011 13:57:53 GMT

Continuing with the videos... This is probably the best footage of open-water racing I've ever seen. It's from the 1-mile British Gas Great Salford Swim, which took place on May 25. www.greatswim.org/.../Default.aspx The link first shows the men's race (won by Olympic bronze-medalist Thomas Lurz). There's no separate link for the women's race (won by Olympic silver-medalist Keri-Anne Payne), but you can view it by clicking the arrow at the right-hand corner of the video screen. Great coverage; great race. An impressive field including Lurz, Davies & Stoychev (sub 7 hour EC) all wearing wetsuits. When a race is wetsuit legal (no separate division), and you plan on racing, then for me a wetsuit is the logical choice. I think everyone can decide for themselves, but I think it's time to recognize racing in wetsuits on equal par with going naked.

RE: Olympic pool swimmers and open-water swimming?

evmo — Tue, 31 May 2011 10:36:38 GMT

It may make it a different race, but not a different sport. ... I would think that swimming as hard as they were, keeping warm would not be a significant issue. I should have clarified: I don't have a (big) problem with wetsuit-legal races, esp. at those temps. They may not have been in danger of hypothermia w/o wetsuits (they were in the water less than 20 mins). However at sub-15F a not-insignificant portion of their energy is being diverted to keeping warm - energy they can't use for propulsion. Presumably there are individual differences in this factor, and some will be relatively advantaged/disadvantaged.

RE: Olympic pool swimmers and open-water swimming?

evmo — Tue, 31 May 2011 10:19:49 GMT

When a race is wetsuit legal (no separate division), and you plan on racing, then for me a wetsuit is the logical choice. The water temp was 14.4C (57.9F) with mid-50s air temp - pretty cold even for those guys. At those temps, wetsuits don't just make them a bit faster; it becomes a completely different race.

RE: Olympic pool swimmers and open-water swimming?

evmo — Tue, 31 May 2011 09:23:11 GMT

RE: Olympic pool swimmers and open-water swimming?

Former Member — Fri, 20 May 2011 16:43:54 GMT

I found another video of Davies but this time in a pool, take a look at it and compare. www.olympic.org/swimming-1500m-freestyle-men Thanks for posting. It is great to watch both races. HAs anyone come across a good interview with David Davies where he discusses and compares the two races. The open water race just seems so much more dynamic and packed with strategy. There are so many variables and the swimmer needs to constantly adapt.

RE: Olympic pool swimmers and open-water swimming?

aquageek — Fri, 20 May 2011 03:52:14 GMT

To the original post... shorter pool races are often won on the dive, turns and breakouts. None of these skills have any value in open water racing. In Beijing Phelps completely dominated the 200 free to win the Gold www.olympic.org/swimming but take a look at how much he gained on his dive, breakout, and spectacular turns. There are no caveats or "buts" to Phelps' swimming, or any Olympic swimmer. They are great swimmers. Just because Phelps doesn't want to do OW doesn't mean if he did he would suck. He'd still be one to beat.

RE: Olympic pool swimmers and open-water swimming?

Former Member — Thu, 19 May 2011 11:05:49 GMT

Thanks for posting that - I'd been looking for video of that race forever (though, I wish they'd shown more than just a few minutes). There's also a video of the Women's 10K on that same site - definitely worth watching. If you're interested, I measured the stroke rates in both races over in another thread. I agree - they're incredible athletes. I found another video of Davies but this time in a pool, take a look at it and compare. www.olympic.org/swimming-1500m-freestyle-men

RE: Olympic pool swimmers and open-water swimming?

Former Member — Mon, 16 May 2011 10:18:18 GMT

I hadn't seen this... wow - they're booking! The rate of turnover is truly outstanding for a race of this distance. I love watching open water. As a pool swimmer I am always amazed by the open water competitors To the original post... shorter pool races are often won on the dive, turns and breakouts. None of these skills have any value in open water racing. In Beijing Phelps completely dominated the 200 free to win the Gold www.olympic.org/swimming but take a look at how much he gained on his dive, breakout, and spectacular turns.

RE: Olympic pool swimmers and open-water swimming?

evmo — Mon, 16 May 2011 09:10:43 GMT

The rate of turnover is truly outstanding for a race of this distance. I love watching open water. As a pool swimmer I am always amazed by the open water competitors Thanks for posting that - I'd been looking for video of that race forever (though, I wish they'd shown more than just a few minutes). There's also a video of the Women's 10K on that same site - definitely worth watching. If you're interested, I measured the stroke rates in both races over in another thread. I agree - they're incredible athletes.

RE: Olympic pool swimmers and open-water swimming?

Former Member — Fri, 13 May 2011 09:05:27 GMT

Video of David Davies at Beijing 2008 Olympics www.olympic.org/swimming-marathon-10km-men I hadn't seen this... wow - they're booking!

RE: Olympic pool swimmers and open-water swimming?

Former Member — Fri, 13 May 2011 06:27:51 GMT

Steven Munatones is probably the best person to answer this question. That said, off the top of my head the best recent examples would probably be: - David Davies (UK) - 1500m bronze medalist (2004 Olympics and 2005 Worlds), and also 10K O.W. silver medalist (2008 Olympics). - Chloe Sutton (USA) - 5K O.W. bronze medalist (2008 Worlds), and currently ranked 3rd in the world in the 400 Free (and gold medalist @ Pan Pacs) World class in open water and almost-but-not-quite world class in the pool? That's a bit more common: Mark Warkentin, Chip Peterson, Alex Meyer, Fran Crippen (all USA), as well as Petar Stoychev (Bulgaria) and Thomas Lurz (Germany). As for Phelps, he probably just doesn't have the appetite for it. To be great in open water, I think you really need to love it, and at least tolerate all the challenges that it entails (rough water, cold/hot temperatures, jellyfish, physical jostling). Speed and endurance are necessary but not sufficient. Video of David Davies at Beijing 2008 Olympics www.olympic.org/swimming-marathon-10km-men

RE: Olympic pool swimmers and open-water swimming?

Munatones — Sun, 16 Jan 2011 11:38:41 GMT

Most of the top open water swimmers in the world are also competitive in races from the 400 IM to the 1500 freestyle in the pool - and many pool swimmers are competitive in the open water. However, in this age of specialization we may never see the likes of another Greta Andersen - or even a David Davies. However, Olympic 10K Marathon Swim pre-race medal favorites like Keri-Anne Payne and Cassandra Patten are very competitive in their pool events (200 IM, 400 IM, 800 free) as are swimmers like Chloe Sutton (400 and 800 free) and pro marathon swimmers like Thomas Lurz (1500) and Spyridon Giannoitis (finalist in the 400 and 1500 frees). In the US, there are swimmers like Andrew Gemmell and several others (Chloe Sutton) who must make hard choices as to what their priorities will be - especially as these young open water swimmers mature and get faster and closer to qualifying for the Olympics in both the pool and open water. But, it is my guess that it will be very difficult for someone to medal in both the pool and open water at the same Olympics. However, when I think of the potential to achieving this goal, I think someone like Chloe Sutton has it. Michael Phelps proved that a great athlete can do 8 great races in a short time at the Olympics, so I would not put it past Chloe - or some of the other aquatic athletes at the highest echelon - to have 2 perfect races in a short time period at the Olympics. In fact, the schedule and course at the 2012 London Olympics is nearly ideal (as ideal as can be expected) for someone to pull off this feat. There is enough time between the pool and open water races at the Olympics to recover; however, how does one train for both? Plus, the qualification process to get into the Olympic 10K Marathon Swim is much more difficult than it is for a pool swimmer. I was planning to write a full analysis of all the top swimmers as we get closer to the qualification races this summer.

RE: Olympic pool swimmers and open-water swimming?

Former Member — Sun, 16 Jan 2011 10:02:59 GMT

Plus, the qualification process to get into the Olympic 10K Marathon Swim is much more difficult than it is for a pool swimmer. The qualification process for a pool swimmer is brutal. I don't know the qualification process for the 10K. Could you please explain it? Thanks!

RE: Olympic pool swimmers and open-water swimming?

Munatones — Sun, 16 Jan 2011 08:43:14 GMT

It is complicated and posted in detail at www.openwatersource.com/olympic-10k-marathon-swim.html. The purpose to have this qualification process is to enable as many countries as possible to qualify its swimmers for the Olympic final. In 2008, there were 23 countries represented among the 25 female finalists and 24 countries represented among the 25 male finalists in Beijing.

RE: Olympic pool swimmers and open-water swimming?

Former Member — Sun, 09 Jan 2011 15:28:16 GMT

I'm not sure but didn't Grant Hackett try out for the Oz 10k team but not make it?