race pace question

RE: race pace question

srcoyote — Mon, 05 Apr 2010 08:50:39 GMT

Currents are the worst ! Inland lakes also have them ! I knew it!! Last year, I thought I was totally shredding a 3K and ended up with a much slower time than usual. Swim felt good and I had plenty of energy, but the third leg of the triangular course (had to be done 4X) felt like I was swimming a bit up stream as if in a slow moving river.

RE: race pace question

orca1946 — Fri, 02 Apr 2010 06:20:37 GMT

Currents are the worst ! Inland lakes also have them !

RE: race pace question

Jeff Jotz — Thu, 01 Apr 2010 10:28:34 GMT

no this was a swim on the jersey shore. i am pretty sure it was an ocean swim. Jimmy, as the NJLMSC Open Water Chairman, I'm sure that many of the Jersey Shore ocean swims - while lots of fun to swim in - don't measure their course exactly. More than a few of them have swum the same course year after year and perhaps they never gave measuring the course any serious thought. Then again, weather conditions in the area can change in a matter of hours (or less). Wind, tides, currents, etc. can make one ocean swim incredibly fast one year and then incredibly slow the next year.

RE: race pace question

Former Member — Wed, 31 Mar 2010 16:54:21 GMT

The variables in Open Water swimming can be great. A good example is the Waikiki Rough water swim. I believe it's been the same start/finish for a couple of decades, it's a 2.4 mile race that attracts some of the best OW swimmers in the World that in a controlled setting would all be very close to each other. Last year 2009, the overall winning time was just above 42 minutes in 2003 the winning time was 1:04 minutes plus. A difference of 22 minutes. Can you say currents? Which of course is what makes it fun. see link to results www.waikikiroughwaterswim.com/race.html

RE: race pace question

Former Member — Wed, 31 Mar 2010 11:26:54 GMT

swimthegoodfight Thanks for the kind words. Please encourage all your friends to visit bobswims. It is a multi-year effort, but I am trying to put a lot of effort into the fundraising part of it. I hope that as I go forward with the big swims the fundraising will gain some momentum. Every little donation helps. Bob Bruce does a great job putting on the OW swims here in Oregon. Unfortunately I have not been able to squeeze in as many as I'd like. 2 years ago I returned to competing by way of triathlons. I began to realize while I loved training outdoors for triathlons, my favorite part of the race was the swim so I have been doing more OW racing (no interest in the pool).

RE: race pace question

Former Member — Wed, 31 Mar 2010 09:23:29 GMT

I've got to laugh at that one. Sorry. Points well taken. The worst I ever had was swimming a down and back where the current on the return leg was like walking on a moving sidewalk - the wrong way. The people who weren't fast enough could not make any headway and just swam to shore and walked back. I do appreciate a good effort with buoy set... sometimes persons aren't even close. I'm very appreciative too when current and flows are spot-on but there are factors that impact these besides tidal cycles. The Pacific Northwest seems to offer numerous open water swims - I envy the opportunities... best of luck with bobswims- very cool - and a great 2010!

RE: race pace question

Kevin in MD — Wed, 31 Mar 2010 09:14:32 GMT

And 75% of the people who swam it did it under 25 minutes and this includes a lot of 50-60 year olds. Is it possible the course really isnt a mile? Or do I need to ramp up my training? There was a current and they swam with the current, 98% chance that is the answer, particularly since the win and slowest times were so close together. Is this by chance one of the now york city swims in the Hudson? Happened to me my first year, I figured I would be the last person across. I wasn't by a long shot.

RE: race pace question

srcoyote — Wed, 31 Mar 2010 08:51:43 GMT

The worst I ever had was swimming a down and back where the current on the return leg was like walking on a moving sidewalk - the wrong way. Right before I did my first river swim last year, I asked this board for advice. They said that mid-river was stronger current so try to go down stream towards the middle of the river and upstream near the shore. Unfortunately the course was laid out in such a way that upstream was one third into the middle of the river and down stream was almost at the shore. If the motto in The Princess Bride is "fight to the pain" then the motto of that swim was "swim to the puke". I didn't, but I wanted to. The funny thing was that I still finished several minutes ahead of someone who would swim much faster than I in the Big Shoulders one month later.

RE: race pace question

Former Member — Wed, 31 Mar 2010 07:50:57 GMT

i chased a buoy once in an out-and-back 5-mile swim in Texas... after marking the buoy for a fair distance and swimming toward the buoy, I changed my tack and headed to intercept the buoy. Wind-action on the buoy was dragging the anchor along the bottom. after completing the swim in approximately 3 hours, I just laughed at the moment... it would be a lot less amusing to have similar circumstances in San Francisco Bay. I've got to laugh at that one. Sorry. Points well taken. The worst I ever had was swimming a down and back where the current on the return leg was like walking on a moving sidewalk - the wrong way. The people who weren't fast enough could not make any headway and just swam to shore and walked back.

RE: race pace question

Former Member — Wed, 31 Mar 2010 07:45:37 GMT

I would hope these days that at the very least people make use of an inexpensive GPS when laying out a course. Bob - GPS can still be a little dodgy... setting buoys in a range of water depths, impact of wind, current and flow... the physics of length of line and anchor weight... in addition, you're attempting to set these bouys and establish satellite link from a bobbing cork. i chased a buoy once in an out-and-back 5-mile swim in Texas... after marking the buoy for a fair distance and swimming toward the buoy, I changed my tack and headed to intercept the buoy. Wind-action on the buoy was dragging the anchor along the bottom. after completing the swim in approximately 3 hours, I just laughed at the moment... it would be a lot less amusing to have similar circumstances in San Francisco Bay.

RE: race pace question

Former Member — Wed, 31 Mar 2010 06:31:51 GMT

I just started with a swim coach this year cause I am doing 10k and hope to get up to marathon distance(23 miles) soon. If your in the pool one way to help your speed is to count your strokes every length if your stroke rate starts to drop in the next length then you know your slowing down. It not fun but it make your stroke pace very even, so then when your in the open water you build an even steady pace.The lower you can get your stork rate swimming the full mile in the pool the faster you will get at open water. Good luck to you this is a wonderful and fun sport you will get so addicted.

RE: race pace question

Former Member — Wed, 31 Mar 2010 06:23:40 GMT

I'm sure it was not a cable race , the wire measures the distance. Most are just a good guess as to the distance. I would hope these days that at the very least people make use of an inexpensive GPS when laying out a course.

RE: race pace question

jimmygoogle — Wed, 31 Mar 2010 02:31:01 GMT

There was a current and they swam with the current, 98% chance that is the answer, particularly since the win and slowest times were so close together. Is this by chance one of the now york city swims in the Hudson? Happened to me my first year, I figured I would be the last person across. I wasn't by a long shot. no this was a swim on the jersey shore. i am pretty sure it was an ocean swim.

RE: race pace question

orca1946 — Wed, 31 Mar 2010 02:06:23 GMT

I'm sure it was not a cable race , the wire measures the distance. Most are just a good guess as to the distance.

RE: race pace question

mattson — Tue, 30 Mar 2010 12:15:34 GMT

Did that OW swim allow wet suits? That will improve times too.

RE: race pace question

jimmygoogle — Tue, 30 Mar 2010 07:42:58 GMT

Did that OW swim allow wet suits? That will improve times too. i have no idea if they allowed wetsuits. i have read that they can help though. thanks everyone for the input. i am going to concentrate more on finishing the race rather than trying to compete.

RE: race pace question

Former Member — Tue, 30 Mar 2010 05:03:24 GMT

I am hoping to do my first open water swim this summer, its a one mile swim. I was looking at the past results of the event online and I am confused by some of the times. The winning time was 15:30, that is moving pretty good. However there was a 67 year old man who finished it in just over 20 minutes (kudos to him). And 75% of the people who swam it did it under 25 minutes and this includes a lot of 50-60 year olds. Is it possible the course really isnt a mile? Or do I need to ramp up my training? many an open water are far shorter, or far longer, than advertised... sometimes problematic but typically simply an idiosyncracy or character of the race itself. winds, current, air and water temperature conspire both with and against us in any given open water event. loop courses set wrong quckly magnify their errors. i do imagine your particular course was short but any of a number of parameters might have benefitted swimmers.

RE: race pace question

Former Member — Mon, 29 Mar 2010 05:13:13 GMT

We like to keep it a secret but we OW swimmers are REALLY fast! None of that pushing off the wall to make us faster. We just don't need that kind of crutch. No 2 open water courses are the same, whether it is the same venue or a different one. Some long, some short & once in a while the right length. Combine that with different surface and wind conditions and you quickly realize it's about the race not the time. If I may be so bold to say, it is one of the reasons we like it.