Experiences in Cold Water - Ireland (LOOOONG)

RE: Experiences in Cold Water - Ireland (LOOOONG)

Former Member — Fri, 20 Feb 2009 11:10:13 GMT

www.lajollacoveswimclub.org/.../Succumbing to Liquid Mediu1.pdf Everyone who swims in cold water MUST read this! I swim once a month @ the La Jolla Cove.

RE: Experiences in Cold Water - Ireland (LOOOONG)

Animal — Tue, 10 Feb 2009 10:46:17 GMT

My experiences of cold water are many from swimming where snow was melting into the water to a 14 hour attempt of the English Channel at 63 degrees. Swimming in the snow melt of a mountain lake at 9,000 feet here in Colorado was an experience. I am not sure of the temp, but it was likely under 50 degrees and more like 45 degrees, since the days rarely get above 70 degrees at that elevation. What I was feeling the most was needle pricks on my chest and the feeling never went away while I swam for 30 minutes or so. Breathing was hard, but I was not pushing it. Cold water swimming is a state of mind, but I always have someone in a kayak next to me in these mountain lakes. On the plains of Colorado, the Colorado Masters swim in the gravel ponds at Chatfield Res. We start in late April or the first weekend in May. I have swam here at 49 and 47 degrees, but always with one or two other loonies without wetsuits. We would wear silicon caps, earplugs and our suits and that is it. Swim times were from 25 to 40 minutes. As long as we were moving it was okay. Again, like the other postings it is a state of mind to overcome in cold water. A last note about swimming in cold temps, when you overcome and are able to swim in it, it is easier everytime after. I can now swim in 56 degree water for an hour or more and I do not have the shakes as bad when I am warming up. The English Channel after 14 hours and less than 2 miles from the French coast I gave up. I could not move my arms out of the water and thus could not keep warm. Have reserved my boat for 2011.

RE: Experiences in Cold Water - Ireland (LOOOONG)

Former Member — Sun, 01 Feb 2009 09:15:52 GMT

donalb You are in a different league to me. I just swim for sanity in the winter. You swim to train. I'm just an old codger. I don't stay in the water long enough to get cold (just 4 mins / 150m yesterday) I dont know of any open water swim events in Galway yet this year so I cant tell you how they went. Hope you make it to Galway for the yacht race. Hopefully there'll be a few of them left in the race by then. Come down to Salthill and we can swim out to them! Cheers Gerry

RE: Experiences in Cold Water - Ireland (LOOOONG)

Former Member — Fri, 30 Jan 2009 12:21:26 GMT

Females for some strange reason are not as effected by cold as the guys. I know lots of females who could stay in cold water longer then most men of greater stature. The physiological reason for this is that women have a more evenly distributed layer of subcutaneous fat. Consequently, core body temperature tends to drop more slowly in women. Paradoxically though, women's perception of cold actually tends to be more acute as that same layer of fat slows heat transfer from the core to the skin - hence women feel colder but are in less danger of actual hypothermia. Once a woman learns to deal with the perception of cold, she can stay in the water longer. That same layer of fat is also why women tend to have better natural body position in the water as opposed to guys. Kind of like an internal wet suit. -LBJ

RE: Experiences in Cold Water - Ireland (LOOOONG)

Former Member — Wed, 28 Jan 2009 09:00:09 GMT

Donald I just did not want anyone to put a blanket around me. I would dry off and just not insulate the lower body temperature in with a blanket. The dry off and into the warm car is good and I have done this. Females for some strange reason are not as effected by cold as the guys. I know lots of females who could stay in cold water longer then most men of greater stature.

RE: Experiences in Cold Water - Ireland (LOOOONG)

Former Member — Wed, 28 Jan 2009 06:56:13 GMT

Hey all, I have been training cold water for many years, and yes, you're body does begin to adapt and prefer colder temps. I recently have been converted to minimal clothes afterwards in a warm car. I wouldn't recommend it if you're still out in the elements, but I have started experimenting with it, and it does indeed keep you warmer. I'm at a point where 50F is very comfortable for me, and last week swam in 42F for 45mins with relative comfort (no shivering afterwards). I jumped in a warm shower afterwards, but I agree, that's not something I'd recommend for newbies. I also have to say, that while my body seems to be developing it's own "wet suit", that is, an extra layer of fat, my recent experiences have sort of blown the whole notion that you must have a layer of body fat out of the water. I have just come back from the Strait of Magellan, where I trained/crewed for my friends who crossed last week, becoming the 6th, 7th, and 8th persons to ever successfully complete that swim. The water was 40F, two of them swam close to 2hours. My friend Rachel could be described as skinny, yet she has an incredible tolerance for the cold that more innate than most. I do think so much of this is mental, of learning to relax your mind and body in a state of extreme distress. Learning to push through pain. But even Rachel is starting to develop a tiny layer of fat. The body is amazing in it's ability to adapt. Rachel has a wonderful blog describing her swim at www.rachelgolub.blogspot.com/

RE: Experiences in Cold Water - Ireland (LOOOONG)

Former Member — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 16:15:28 GMT

Cheers Gerry, Yes, January has been odd weather wise here. My normal experience of January sea conditions is generally calm, often disappointingly so. Not so this year with the storms combined with colder water than we've had in at least 5 years. When was the last time Salthill got snow? BTW, how did the first Galway open water swim go this year? I haven't talked to anyone that was there. It was only a 1000 metres or so? Might make it next year if it's a bit longer. A friend is working on the Volvo Race organisation, we're hoping she might kick a few tickets our way and we're there. I've only made it into the sea twice this month, due to the high SW winds, very few days safe enough to swim. No beach access at the Guillames in Tramore so exits dangerous in SW surging water. 6.5C here at New Year, last weekend it was down to 5.8C, (42.5F) (talking to a few of the auld lads it has hit lower, down at 4C, but I missed it). Unlike you though I wouldn't describe it as comfortable, maybe "surviveable" is a better description for me. Fair play to you. I did 20 minutes non-wetsuit at the weekend, pleased with myself. After the last few months regular swimming I think I might have it mentally cracked. The pain just doesn't matter (it's there but feck it anyway)! You should have seen the colour of me when I got out, all the audl fella's were laughing. I did wear a pair of swim fins last weekend, 1st time ever in the sea, there was a swell running and I thought I'd add a bit of safety. This time last year I was doing 25 minutes every 2 weeks, but wearing a suit! One recent thing I've found that helps also, is having another reason to get in. With the lighter training I'm doing this year, and not being able to afford regular massages like last year, I seem to developing occasional muscle knots in my back. There's been a few days, particularly in Dec, when I had pain, and the thought of getting in the cold water to relieve it really helped. And of course, deep cold is really good for muscle problems. Speaking about the previous post from Geochuck about not wanting to keep the cold in, well I hate to try to correct anyone else's experience but I would be concerned that someone might decide not getting dressed immediately after a (very) cold swim might be helpful. Lots of Layers are the safe answer. The very, very best option is Merino wool baselayers underneath. I now use two Merino layers, t-shirt & a long-sleeve, with a micro-fleece over that, then another jumper then a coat AND hat AND gloves. Oh, and Merino long-johns. Merino holds up to 30% of its weight in water while retaining heat. (gotta love ALDI, Merino wool baselayers at xmas for 20 euro! 50 or 60 up to a 100 euro elsewhere) I do get bloody cold though. We're talking about water temperatures that might kill you in 45 minutes (if you're thin like me but have some experience). BTW, a 15 to 30 minute survival time figure is often quoted here whenever there's a fishing accident, but I generally think that's inaccurate. I've fine tuned my own understanding of this in the last few months, and figure I have a maximum of 5 minutes to get dressed. By then the deep shakes are starting and I'm already moving slowly. If I'm not at least partially covered by then (torso) there's trouble ahead. I've started bringing my dogs down. After the swim I get them out of the car and let them drag me for a mile or two along the coast to help rewarm. Anyway. Cheers. For all, I did see somehwere over the hols that a new study is showing that head loss through the head is NOT as significant as we previously thought. It was always said it was 30% of loss, but is now reckoned to only be 10%. Use that info as you will. regards Donal Ireland

RE: Experiences in Cold Water - Ireland (LOOOONG)

Former Member — Mon, 26 Jan 2009 11:20:38 GMT

Donalb Thank you for your excellent posting.Very informative and useful. I am one of the polar bears you refer to - swimming in Salthill,Galway (at Blackrock). There are some beautiful photos that really capture swimming there on http://johnsmyth.ie/ Have a look at this website - do a search for Salthill. John is a professional photographer and he comes to Salthill to take photos probably every week. Maybe you'll be tempted by them back to Galway Bay. He has taken some great photos this month - a month in which we had 140kph winds and a week of calm freezing waters depending on what day you picked. Regarding our water temp here in the bay - Water temp hit 2.5C on Jan 14. Its currently (today - 26 Jan) just under 6C which is comfortable relatively speaking. At this temp I limit my swim to 150m. The Atlantic (Gulf Stream) is 10C, 200 miles offshore, at the moment so we are a good bit below that. By the way - Yesterday (Sunday 25th) was amazing in Salthill - about 20 students from Minnesota showed up at the diving board and started high board diving into the sea. I think Obama told them they could and they did. Cheer & thanks again Gerry

RE: Experiences in Cold Water - Ireland (LOOOONG)

Former Member — Sun, 16 Nov 2008 07:48:02 GMT

Donal an excellent post. I have done a little cold water swimming and do appreciate your fine post. I never wrap up after a cold water swim, to me it holds the cold in. I would rather walk around and let the exercise warm the system. I would get off my wet swimsuit, dry off, put some dry shorts on and a cotton "T" shirt just to make sure the wind does not cool you off.

RE: Experiences in Cold Water - Ireland (LOOOONG)

Former Member — Fri, 14 Nov 2008 16:58:52 GMT

Hey Sarge, I lived in Salthill/Galway for a couple of years, but I was a cyclist then, not a swimmer. Actually I would guess Galway Bay is around the same as the South East, at worst 1 deg C lower. Galway Bay itself is big and deep enough and exposed to wind to maybe drop it the temp around the shores, but from years surfing in Clare & Lahinch, I found the water up there generally slighter warmer than Waterford. I haven't done the Liffey swim myself nor plan to , though I have done the Lee Swim in Cork for the last few years, a swim which is really growing in popularity and which people from abraod are starting to travel to, I think there were over 400 this year. Also Sandycove is only a short trip away, and is becoming very well known in Open Water Swimming. See here for a pic and brief description. www.10kswimmer.com/search Next time you're coming over you might find it easier to get a few good open water swims in... Regards Donal Ireland

RE: Experiences in Cold Water - Ireland (LOOOONG)

Former Member — Fri, 14 Nov 2008 13:26:13 GMT

Donalb, A slightly unrelated question. How much colder do you think Galway bay is? I swam a little there last summer. If you're ever up in Galway, there's a great OW venue there in Salthill. It's called Blackrock. We've gone to Ireland a few times. I've always dreamed of doing the Liffy Swim.

RE: Experiences in Cold Water - Ireland (LOOOONG)

Former Member — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 16:35:21 GMT

Donal, this was an incredibly helpful and inspiring post! I've been swimming for about 10 years, but this year I have really tried to extend my outdoor swimming season. So far, so good! I have gone pretty much every day and haven't felt too uncomfortable. What I really took away from your post was that I'm not crazy to be swimming w/o a wetsuit in 50-55 F water when the air is cold. Like you, I couldn't find too much information about this. Without the concern that I'm putting myself in imminent danger by even going into the water at these temps, I can relax and just get on with my swim. I don't mind the mild discomfort at the beginning and after that it's completely comfortable. The only part I hate is getting out. I rinse off and towel off to stop swimmer's itch, but it definitely leads to shivering. Thanks again.

RE: Experiences in Cold Water - Ireland (LOOOONG)

Former Member — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 13:49:46 GMT

Thanks Terry, And thanks for the great signature -- I guess it looked familiar to you! And Leonard, hmmm not much to say -- I'll keep that in mind. Kathy __________________ The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. – Ann Landers You cannot be really first-rate at your work if your work is all you are. – Anna Quindlen Take risks; be involved;…try something new;…and, most important, define yourself by no one else’s definition. – Luci Swindoll >·´¯`·.¸ .·´¯`·.> ¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.>·´¯`·.¸ gotta swim!

RE: Experiences in Cold Water - Ireland (LOOOONG)

Former Member — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 08:13:26 GMT

Just a suggestion about warming up after a cold swim: Before you leave the house, fill up two 2-liter soda/seltzer bottles with hot water (don't melt the bottles), screw the cap on tightly and then seal it with a small strip of duct tape to keep the cap from coming loose. Transport them wrapped in several layers of an old blanket and keep them in that while you swim. When you are done swimming, put on a slightly large sweat suit, unwrap the bottles and slip them under the sweat suit. Nice. This trick can also be used to keep your spouse from bankrupting you. By that I mean that we keep the heat down at night in the house and when I get up at 5 AM, The Court Without Appeal will kvetch that she is cold and demand that the thermostat be set at a temperature that melts steel. I often slip two 2-liter bottles under the covers next to her and the demands cease, she goes back to sleep for a few more hours, and global warming is slowed slightly. The key here is to make SURE the bottles are sealed. I've never had one leak yet, however. I also use this trick to keep our one very old cat warm - I make a nest on the couch of blankets with the bottles under the blankets for her. -LBJ

RE: Experiences in Cold Water - Ireland (LOOOONG)

Former Member — Sun, 09 Nov 2008 16:03:57 GMT

Donal, Great post. I surfed Lahinch and Enescrone a bit back. Great surf, low crowds, and, did I say great surf. Ireland will have a world surfing champ someday. There are too many perfect breaks. Now about the water temp...

RE: Experiences in Cold Water - Ireland (LOOOONG)

Former Member — Sun, 09 Nov 2008 09:18:46 GMT

Hey Kathy, that's cool!It makes it worthwhile writing all that stuff down. Maybe today'll be your first step for a Channel Solo! One of my biggest frustrations when I started open water was lack of information, as I think I said. I thought the Peggy Dean "Open Water Swimming" book was mediocre at best, and the few experienced swimmers I met at the start were playing ego games. Hope it helps others as well. I'd be delighted to hear anyone's opinions. Regards Donal Ireland

RE: Experiences in Cold Water - Ireland (LOOOONG)

Former Member — Sun, 09 Nov 2008 07:03:28 GMT

Donal, Thanks for the awesome post. I live in Southeast Texas and swam at Galveston Beach 2 weeks ago -- water temp was 80ish (F, of course). So I can't imagine swimming at 60. I really like the information and time concept. hmmm something to think about. Kathy

RE: Experiences in Cold Water - Ireland (LOOOONG)

Former Member — Sun, 09 Nov 2008 06:09:00 GMT

Okay D -- I did it! I'm applying some of what I read in your post ---> I even posted about it on a personal development site --> One limiting belief shot all to hell! There is no way I would have done this before I read your post -- well unless there was a very good reason. Thanks, I be back later -- No excuses. Kathy