hypothermia

RE: hypothermia

Former Member — Fri, 14 Nov 2008 14:15:26 GMT

I used to have a policy,- Don't train in water under 60 degrees F. I moved to a town in northern Quebec where the only place to start training was after the ice came out of the River Bostanais near the Town of La Tuque in late April. We would start training as soon as ice came out of the river. The snow was still on the banks. We would swim up river for 2 and a half miles to the waterfall. We made sure we swam as much as we could out of the current up river. Then we would swim back taking advantage of the current. Every once and a while the pulp logs would come down the river, now that was a danger. The loggers pilled the logs on the river ice and when the ice melted down would come the logs. There was a little lake in the center of our town Lac St.Louis we used to get in there and swim as soon as the ice came out la little ater then in the river. We would swim there and have to actually break the light skin of ice that formed over the lake over the lake on a cold night. We had to be ready to swim our first marathon races of the summer season and they started the first week in July. Cold water swimming is not enjoyable.

RE: hypothermia

Former Member — Fri, 14 Nov 2008 11:17:41 GMT

Hey guys. Thanks for the compliments but a point I was trying to make is I'm NOT tougher than anyone else. I really, REALLY mean that.I just happen to live where the water is always cold so cold becomes relative to me. People who live in the tropics will consider 20Deg C water too cold to swim in. I believe anyone can do it and having an idea of what to expect and what happens to you in cold is one of the most useful tools. You really only become afraid of the unknown. Adding understanding helps remove the fear. Now some of the guys I know, they're tough. Cheers Donal Ireland

RE: hypothermia

jim thornton — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 11:18:50 GMT

Thanks to those of you who read and responded to my article. During my cold water immersion, I spent much of my time is so-called HELP position, which stands for something like "heat escape lessening position." The idea is to roll into a ball, keep your hands in your arms pits, and try not to move around much. Swimming makes you lose heat much faster because your heart is pumping it to the skeletal muscles where it gets sucked out by cold water. Water at 50 degrees is something like 100 x more potent at sucking heat out of your body than air the same temperature. In fact, if you are ever adrift at sea in 50 degree water and 32 degree air and heavy winds, you'll last longer if you can climb onto a floating buoy and await rescue there. The larger and rounder your body the slower you will discharge heat; sumo wrestlers do much better than skinny basketballers. Partly it's a matter of surface area to volume--sumos have much less of it that the tall, lithe types. But body fat is a decent insulator, so the more you have, the better your natural "wetsuit" is. I can't imagine Donal's ordeal! You Irishmen are made of stern stuff! A few other notes: alcohol, by opening up your capilarries and preventing the natural shunting of blood to protect your core, is a huge mistake and will only speed the rate of cooling. Drinking even a large hot coffee might offer some psychological relief, but the Admiral who studied hypothermia for years for the Coast Guard told me that even 32 ounce steaming coffee (2 lbs.) is such a minor fraction of body weight, and it's temperature so little over our natural state, that it doesn't make much of a physiological difference. In terms of rewarming afterwards, if you become severely hypothermic a al George whose heart rate got down to 17, the state can be lifethreatening. The heart becomes very crancky at such cold temperatures, the electrical signaling doesn't work so well, and the blood stuck in the limbs can become acidotic and lethal. If possible, have a paramedic or doctor preside over your rewarming. If no one is available, a technique pioneered by the Danish Navy is growing in popularity, though you might want to check with a hypothermia specialist here. Instead of immersing the person in a warm tub, place just his or her hands in buckets of warm (not scaulding) water. This allows rewarming to proceed gradually, avoding the likelihood of sudden heat changes that could cause probelms with the heart.

RE: hypothermia

Former Member — Thu, 06 Nov 2008 16:26:30 GMT

Cool post, Donal. This year I've been much more into the cold water swimming than ever before. I'm guessing the water is in the low- to mid-50s now. With the use of a thin rubber cap, I find that the temperature is fine. I tend to swim for about 1/2 an hour and while I do shiver slightly after getting out, it's relatively pleasant. Of course, the air temp. has been in the high 50s this week, even after dark, so that helps. The one thing that's a little annoying with the colder water is the amount of prep work - eating something warm (black beans and brown rice with hot sauce is my favorite pre-swim meal) and then a hot drink) and filling up several half-gallon containers with hot water for post-swim rinsing - it takes before I get in. Once I'm in though, it's great.

RE: hypothermia

Former Member — Thu, 06 Nov 2008 13:18:29 GMT

I was a surfer myself here in Ireland for about 10 years before taking up open water swimming 2 & 1/2 years ago. As i surfer I though I knew about real cold. I had gotten out after 2 or 3 hours surfing in a 5/3mm suit and been almost unable to open the car. But then I started open water swimming here. I'm not big or very heavy, 5'8", now 165 since I put on about 10 lbs muscle from training in the last year. Anyway, last year I did a 9 mile (tide assisted) race in oct, water temp 12C, (about 54F) expecting 13C.. Cold at start, felt ok after a few minutes. Swam fine first 50 minutues, when I had my first food break (warm drink). My hands never regained full flexibility after that and gradually lost effeiciency. (The test is if you can touch your thumb to your small finger). I finished in 3 hours. the last mile was very rough with wind against tide. I remember finishing well but can't really remeber anything for the next 15 minutes, though I did manage to dress myself. My girlfriend said my speach wasn't slurred but very very slow and my coordination was shot. I warmed up with hot soup and plenty of clothes but don't recall how long it took, which is unusual. Other bigger swimmers were much better. Since them I've done a lot of cold water, water never got warmer than 65 here this summer, and is currently low 50's. But i've never tried 3 hours in 54F again, as I don't feel it's very benficial for me (although the experience of early Stage 3 or "Mild Hypothermia", as is technically what I was in, was very valuable for an open water swimmer. At 54F I do 40 to 50 minutes. Wind strength and direction are important, a northerly wind is much colder and that's important (Also air temp and sunshine). Fingers will be starting to spread at about 40 minutes in good conditions. What's noticeable is that COLD often isn't the actual sensation, as you're skin is numbed to it, but the sense of decreased efficiency. When getting INTO very cold water (for me probably 10C/50F or colder) what's just as important is how much it hurts/how long it hurts after immersion. The colder the water the place I feel most pain is the soles of my feet. The colder it is the longer this pain will last and the more uncomfortable when I get out (and the more likely are cuts on my feet). I think there's a difference also in Acclimatization or Habituation. Habituation for me is getting used to getting in. The physical sense of fear of the cold has diminished, and putting my face in is fine, and dealing with the pain (which hasn't kicked in yet this winter (currently 11.5C/53F). However acclimatization (being able to stay in longer) hasn't changed much. I think the extra time I can spend in is just as related to the few extra pounds I'm carrying. I'm only in the sea once or twice a week currently (pool other days) currently. This autumn/winter though I'm monitoring and recording temps versus physical effects more closely as part of building up my knowledge. I plan to write a bit more about this in the next day or so for anyone interested, as the early days of my open water swimming I had no-one to ask with no open water (or Masters) swimmers where I live and I found it difficult to gather information, a lost of what I have now comes from only 3 seasons experience. But since many of the very good open water swimmers I know are also much bigger than me, they are not as concerned as me about half degree variations. regards Donal (2nd post but the first about night swimming seem to never make it to the thread)

RE: hypothermia

Former Member — Thu, 06 Nov 2008 09:35:16 GMT

WOW! Donalb, i can't believe you swam 9 miles in such cold water, tide assisted or not. that is crazy. i can't tolerate cold anywhere near as well as you can. i believe that my body could be trained to do so, but i think in order to get there, i would really have to push myself and test my limits, and i don't think it's safe to do that when i swim by myself, which is 99% of the time.

RE: hypothermia

Jeff Jotz — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 03:39:19 GMT

I wrote about hypothermia for both GQ and Boating magazines a few years ago. I volunteered to become hypothermic myself by immersion in the waters off Cape Disappointment in Washington State. You might find this somewhat amusing and educational: www.boatingmag.com/article.asp Good luck! That was a fantastic article! I noticed that it took you over a full hour (maybe two?) to get your core body temp back to normal. I swam a 1-mile OW swim a few years ago in 56F water, and I was freezing cold for at least 2 hours after the swim. I was downing hot coffee, standing in the sun, sitting on my hands, etc. and trying to warm up. It was almost as uncomfortable as that first plunge in the water!

RE: hypothermia

Former Member — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 16:21:27 GMT

good thing you had a kayaker there! that is interesting...i've never gotten sleepy while swimming, but cold water makes me very sleepy after the swim.

RE: hypothermia

Former Member — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 09:47:36 GMT

I found that after I came out of a very cold swim if they wrapped a blanket around me it made me start to shiver. It seemed to me the blankets held the cold in. I would not wrap a blanket around me until I was out of the water for about twenty minutes.

RE: hypothermia

Former Member — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 09:28:33 GMT

When my jaw tightens up and it gets hard to talk... sure signs of problems to come. The worst is after finishing a cold swim: the heartrate falls and the "big chill" sets in.

RE: hypothermia

Former Member — Sat, 04 Oct 2008 09:56:59 GMT

i did a swim about 9 years ago where i started to get really sleepy. i was swimming with my eyes closed and actually swam into my kayak several times. not sure if it was hypothermia or narcolepsy.

RE: hypothermia

Former Member — Sat, 04 Oct 2008 05:30:28 GMT

RE: hypothermia

Former Member — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:40:22 GMT

Interesting topic. Around this time of year I start drinking a large warm beverage (hot chocolate lately) before getting in and find that it makes it much easier to start out and keep going. It does keep the core warm, but I do find my arms and legs get cold. Numbness is a sign I use to keep track of how cold is too cold (numb-ish feet are OK, but when it starts to spread that's a problem and I get out) - I also find myself counting in multiples of, say, 7 to check for mental confusion. Usually I find I've stayed in too long when I get out and get the uncontrollable shivers on the beach. Fortunately, we do get acclimated to the cold water and it stays comfortable even when the water temp gets below 60 degrees F. Happy swimming.

RE: hypothermia

Former Member — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 11:18:49 GMT

The hands cup and start to look like a claw, you get into problems. After coming out of a race, you are in the hospital and after being in the hospital, the doctor says ah thats better 14 beats to the minute. I think he meant I was suffering from hypothermia.

RE: hypothermia

Former Member — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 10:57:04 GMT

it's tough to figure out the breaking point because it seems like everyone is different. i've gotten slurred speech even just from swimming in 63 degree water....and yet i've gone down to much colder (coldest was 55). i'm undecided on whether drinking something hot beforehand would help. i find it actually easier to get in the cold water when the air is also cold. so i wonder if it would be harder to get if my body is all toasty. my habit is to get up, sit around the house for 10 minutes, then get right in the water.

RE: hypothermia

Former Member — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 07:03:50 GMT

RE: hypothermia

Former Member — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 06:00:48 GMT

I spent an hour swimming hard in 57 degree water, 58 air temp. I felt ok until after I got out and my heart rate dropped......slurred speech and uncontrolable shivering. Within 20 minutes I was in a steam room and 10 min. later I was feeling normal.

RE: hypothermia

Former Member — Thu, 02 Oct 2008 13:18:38 GMT

oh no, my hands and feet eventually go numb but no more than can be expected since it's so frickin COLD! i use this as a gauge to tell when i should get out of the water Well, my reason for asking was, I've had hypothermia twice, but it wasn't accompanied by any numbness in the hands and feet at all, just all-over coldness. One tip I got on staying warmer in cold water was to eat something within a half hour of getting in. Supposedly having food in your stomach keeps the blood at your core so it doesn't get so chilled. Then again, that might make the extremities get cold even faster.

RE: hypothermia

Former Member — Wed, 01 Oct 2008 16:24:52 GMT

RE: hypothermia

Former Member — Wed, 01 Oct 2008 06:29:04 GMT

Is it possible that you might have this? www.londonphysiocentre.co.uk/reynauds-syndrome.htm I used to know someone with this problem. Her hands and feet would go numb when doing outdoor sports in the winter and it took hours for them to warm up again. oh no, my hands and feet eventually go numb but no more than can be expected since it's so frickin COLD! i use this as a gauge to tell when i should get out of the water

RE: hypothermia

Former Member — Wed, 01 Oct 2008 06:04:04 GMT

thanks for the links. i don't think i would ever get to the point of being confused etc. this morning i swam in 61 degree water (sudden drop here in san diego) and after an hour, i couldn't feel a couple of my fingers anymore. i got out immediately. when my fingers go numb, it feels like i'm not pulling any water. i think i would probably start to panic if i were far from shore. Is it possible that you might have this? www.londonphysiocentre.co.uk/reynauds-syndrome.htm I used to know someone with this problem. Her hands and feet would go numb when doing outdoor sports in the winter and it took hours for them to warm up again.

RE: hypothermia

Former Member — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 12:44:02 GMT

For the common folk out there that like to get in cold water, here is what I have to say about it. If the water feels really cold when you are getting in ..keep the time in it down to a half hour or less. If it starts to feel cold when you have been swimming awhile after you have warmed up..get out. You feel great and invigorated ,and cruising along..but notice a slight cramping anywhere ..get out. When you get in the water and it feels like its starting to burn your skin...like your chest or stomach....20 minutes is enough. Side note. You have to swim hard enough to generate heat and continue that heat....however, swim too hard and the air going into your lungs can cool your diaphram and cause a cramp. Swiming cold open water like I did tonight is more about the zen state of mind than the workout itself. Sometimes you just need to do it to connect again. You don't have to be in a long time.

RE: hypothermia

ViveBene — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 09:38:42 GMT

What signs do you look for that tell you it's DEFINITELY time to get out? btw even when just the feet have gone numb, i make sure i'm no more than about 100 meters from shore. For me, when I have a sensation of a cooling heart, usually after the left hand goes numb. Fortunately, I have always been in shallow water, and it usually occurs after a long immersion period. Someone (perhaps on these boards) described an episode of hypothermia. He felt extremely fatigued and discovered he was trying to breathe underwater. It was difficult for him to make land.

RE: hypothermia

jim thornton — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 05:57:41 GMT

RE: hypothermia

Rob Copeland — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 05:08:16 GMT

Check out www.doversolo.com/hypothermia.htm