Gotta Love those Tri Athletes

RE: Gotta Love those Tri Athletes

Former Member — Mon, 22 Sep 2008 12:41:08 GMT

Actually, I have never had a problem in a triathlon either. While swimming is my strength, I have done 5 triathlons (and 2 open water swims) this year. The couple of incidences I have experienced were in OW swims. However, on triathlon forums people do complain when it is a mass start with a couple of hundred or more athletes. Incidental contact? Inexperience? Nut jobs? Hell if I know.

RE: Gotta Love those Tri Athletes

Former Member — Mon, 22 Sep 2008 12:31:23 GMT

Man, I don't know what races you guys are hearing about, reading about, or doing, but I've done in excess of 20 tris in So Cal, and about 5 OWS in the last 3 years, never been kicked, punched, had my wetsuit torn off, had nails on me, or anything that I am hearing here. Incidental contact? Sure - Actually, trake that back - Crum Pier to Pier 2006, ha dhte most aggressive swimmer I've ever had, that was an OWS, not a tri. I am not the fastest, but I am a top 10% tri swimmer (which makes me a top 20-30% or so OW swimmer, depending on who shows up) So, what have we learned? There are jerks in triathlon. There are jerks in running races. there are jerks in swim races. Who knew?????

RE: Gotta Love those Tri Athletes

Former Member — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 13:36:50 GMT

I've heard stories about people intentionally unzipping other people's wetsuits during races, presumably to slow the other person down and not because they wanted to see what was inside.

RE: Gotta Love those Tri Athletes

Muppet — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 09:15:50 GMT

...she intentionally scratched him and tried to pull down his suit. If someone ever did that to me, male or female, they'd get a nice kick to the ribs. In this case, if I had heard the girl complain, i probably would have gone over and :mooning: since she clearly wanted to see my nekked :mooning: (now where's the jailed smiley)

RE: Gotta Love those Tri Athletes

Former Member — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 13:30:45 GMT

Speaking of triathletes.... I did the 1.5K swim leg of a triathlon relay this last weekend. I can't believe the amount of deliberate hitting, shoving, pulling, kicking (once in the crotch - ouch), and general nastiness that went on in the swim. It was USAT sanctioned, so I assume this is the norm. I've never experienced anything even close in an open water swim event. It did spur me on to try a bit harder to get away from the pack earlier, if only to avoid dental surgery. Weirder still was that other than being a bit Type-A and OCD, most of the triathletes I talked to were extremely pleasant out of the water. Man, some people need to get things in perspective. -LBJ

RE: Gotta Love those Tri Athletes

Former Member — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 05:24:10 GMT

Yes it is a bit strange. I have swam many open water races over the years and have had my share of "experiences", like the first time someone used my body as a wall to push off as we rounded a tight buoy. Don't get me wrong I have no problem going stroke for stroke in open water inches apart from another swimmer. I definitely have no problem with someone touching my feet (too many years of too many swimmers in one lane during swim practice), although if someone grabbed my ankle and pulled it to get past me my elbow might find it's way to a body part. The strangest part is that triathletes, and I am one as well, are not fast swimmers. I am routinely one of the first out of the water and I wonder what the hubbub was at the start. Personally at tri races I start on the outside and ignore everyone on my way to the first buoy. I try to negative split the swim. Meanwhile everyone else is in the middle flailing about to be in the lead of a group that will take 30 minutes to swim a mile. Go figure. In true open water races I would be hesitant to employ that strategy because a group could get away and I would no chance to tag along.

RE: Gotta Love those Tri Athletes

Former Member — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 16:59:02 GMT

Yep, I can't say that OWS are any more ethical then Tri swimmers. I've been to a few swims that were really crazy including the swim that started this thread.. forums.usms.org/showthread.php

RE: Gotta Love those Tri Athletes

Former Member — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 14:51:58 GMT

"I was drafting behind someone and when someone was coming up on my left I picked up my pace using the wake of the swimmer in front of me to sling shot me past her and stay with the passing swimmer. I admit I did touch her feet a few times over the previous 100 yds. " Her reaction was out of line, however, drafting and touching the draftee's feet is a pretty agressive action. One must be prepared to take evasive steps for the reaction. Boy, that's blaming the victim. Anyway, the thing that really surprises me is when the idiot doing this sort of thing has absolutely nothing to gain by it. Maybe they move up from 178 to 176 or something. I once posted about watching an International Triathlon Union race and seeing a guy in mid pack slapping cups out of the volunteers' hands so the runners behind him wouldn't be able to hydrate. Someone then posted a story about a 10k runner on pace for running about 42 minutes--no threat to win the race--wiping out a whole table of cups for the same reason. I try to teach athletes to focus on things they can control and not to worry about things they can't control. If you're worried about improving your times and doing the best you can, it doesn't matter if some of the people are faster than you and you don't win the race. You usually can't control whether you win since you don't control how fast your opponents are, you can only control fast you go.

RE: Gotta Love those Tri Athletes

Former Member — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 13:09:07 GMT

It looks like it did not happen on Toro Canyon but on Goberador Canyon road. The problem apparently had to do with discarded water bottles and the heavily shaded area. Having ridden that road hundreds of times I can attest to the fact that the lighting provides serious challenges at times. I can't imagine it with empty water bottles strewn across the road. 209.85.173.104/search One thing I can't stand about triathletes--and I am one--is their propensity to litter. Gel packs, water bottles, bar wrappers strewn everywhere. I keep a jersey pocket dedicated to trash and never, ever discard water bottles except at the specified water bottle exchange areas. (Of course, sometime bottle fall out accidentally, especially with those bottle holders that go behind the seat because common sense dictates less drag if you put them there, although real-world testing shows they're actually worse, but that's a different story.)

RE: Gotta Love those Tri Athletes

Former Member — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 12:32:29 GMT

RE: Gotta Love those Tri Athletes

Former Member — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 12:14:13 GMT

I used to live in Santa Barbara and suspect it occurred on Toro Canyon Road. It is a steep down hill that has blind corners with a constantly changing radius on each turn. Easy to make a mistake if you are new to the road or attack it too aggressively. Sad.

RE: Gotta Love those Tri Athletes

srcoyote — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 07:43:09 GMT

I am for staging a West Side Story like OWSs vs. TRIs in a synchronized swimming extravaganza. Of course, I won't participate because I gotta have my goggles.

RE: Gotta Love those Tri Athletes

Former Member — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 05:54:58 GMT

www.signonsandiego.com/.../news_1s29fitness.html

RE: Gotta Love those Tri Athletes

Former Member — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 05:53:42 GMT

The cyclists are not immune ....sad story www.signonsandiego.com/.../news_1s28trideath.html

RE: Gotta Love those Tri Athletes

Former Member — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 05:47:50 GMT

"I was drafting behind someone and when someone was coming up on my left I picked up my pace using the wake of the swimmer in front of me to sling shot me past her and stay with the passing swimmer. I admit I did touch her feet a few times over the previous 100 yds. " Her reaction was out of line, however, drafting and touching the draftee's feet is a pretty agressive action. One must be prepared to take evasive steps for the reaction. I'd have to politely disagree with you on that one. Lightly and occasionally touching another swimmer's feet is not considered aggressive. It happens from time to time even in swim practices in the pool. Penny Lee Dean offers some thoughts in her book "Open Water Swimming". Frankly it doesn't bother me a bit. Too many years of high school swimming with too many people in a small pool. As for drafting, I have never seen an open water race (including the olympics) where drafting wasn't an integral part of the race. I think her problem was she was not comfortable with swimming in close proximity to another swimmer in open water.. The proper response to that is to swim away from the swimmer, not reach across their back with your nails. I am sure her opinion differs, but the rules are clear on that what she did was grounds for disqualification.

RE: Gotta Love those Tri Athletes

Former Member — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 05:34:15 GMT

RE: Gotta Love those Tri Athletes

Former Member — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 05:07:54 GMT

this sounds like a race i should look into. LOL. I hadn't thought of it that way. Maybe if I wasn't so caught up in the race, I would have realized she was upset I was no longer showing an interest in her.

RE: Gotta Love those Tri Athletes

Former Member — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:00:47 GMT

Geez! I just thought it was kinda goofy, didnt mean to slam the whole Tri- Nation............ Harold, I am sure you can kick my butt in the water, and I dont run nor bike so I am sure it would be no contest were we to race, either in the pool or in a Tri, does that make YOU feel better?..... For the record, I swim on my own, at a local Health Club. If I go early enough, there are two guys, local Tri-Athletes, who are there really getting it done in the pool. They work really hard, and we sometimes talk briefly, always a nice conversation. Is it because they are Tri-Athletes they are good guys? No, it is because they are good guys. When I go to Open Water races, I always enjoy talking with all participants. In fact cant remember a bad experience at any race I have attended, either as a swimmer or spectator (and that is a bunch of meets, believe me). Never seen anyone not be welcoming of anyone else. We are all one big family, some like pools, some like lakes, some like oceans, some like to swim, then bike, then run. I am good with all of that.. I just thought his response, "there are cold spots out there" was hilarious. If I came upon a swimmer-swimmer, swimming with a big whole in the butt of his suit and I said, "Isn't that a bit revealing?" and his response were "reduces drag" I would have found that funny as well, probably would have posted it. Would someone get mad at me for slamming swimmers? Geez, :whiteflag: Harold, by the way, I am planning on going to Big Shoulders in Chicago. If the water is below 72, I probably wont swim, not because I am a wuss, but it wouldnt be fun me either, as I am not use to it. So you are a bigger man than me again, you big lug! Sorry, didn't mean to single you out or start a flame war; yours was the post that made me finally say, "Hmmm, there seems to be a trend here." And maybe I'm just wrong about that trend! :) Anyway, I'd never try that mile in 63-degree water without a wetsuit these days. I'm older and no longer pride myself on that kind of self-flagellation. However, I do hope to do Big Shoulders next year (apparently I still like that kind of self-flagellation). As to wetsuit or no: that will likely be a game-time decision.

RE: Gotta Love those Tri Athletes

Former Member — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:37:42 GMT

RE: Gotta Love those Tri Athletes

srcoyote — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:17:29 GMT

Outside of the normal (if misguided) human tribal reaction of saying "my side is better," I can't ignore that my experience with tri-athletes seems to have beem much more negative than my experiences with OWSs. I've shown up at OWS events to have wet-suited triathletes (who are using an OWS to get prepare for a longer event) elbow and push unnecessarily to start at the front only to be completely in my way within seconds while I watch OWSs seem to naturally sort themselves in speed order to avoid too much jostling. I've also been at mixed events where the OWS event is on a Sat, and the Tri on a Sun, only to have the Tri's show up on Sat. and bogart around the course, attempting to swim warm-ups nearby with an OWS race going on, etc. But then when I think about it some more, there are tri-athletes who train at the same pool as me who are completely pleasant, and we share lanes without incident. Ironic to this conversation, one tri-athlete who I see at the pool was recently trying to get used to a wet-suit for the first time and found it annoying. And I've certainly encountered some jerks at OWS events loudly assessing their competition and showing little sportsmanship. I think some of this perception may have to do with sheer numbers. If 10% of TRIs and OWSs are jerks, by averages, one will encounter more jerks who are TRIs when Tri entries are in the thousands and OWS entries rarely reach over 100.

RE: Gotta Love those Tri Athletes

Former Member — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:47:15 GMT

she intentionally ran her nails down my back and then grabbed my suit. this sounds like a race i should look into.

RE: Gotta Love those Tri Athletes

Former Member — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 07:57:50 GMT

Ok let's take a step back. I love open water swimming and people who are involved in the sport, but frankly the worst violation of open water rules and custom was in an USMS 5K open water race. I was drafting behind someone and when someone was coming up on my left I picked up my pace using the wake of the swimmer in front of me to sling shot me past her and stay with the passing swimmer. I admit I did touch her feet a few times over the previous 100 yds. but it was purely incidental contact. I made NO other physical contact with her. As I passed her she intentionally ran her nails down my back and then grabbed my suit. This is a clear violation of USMS Open Water Rule 303.8.1 & 303.8.10 which is a manditory disqualification. Because this swim was under USMS rules (versus the anything goes in many open water swims) I did not retaliate. Frankly it was also because she was a woman. In any other situation she would have gotten a strong kick to her shoulder.So I gave her a loud & strong verbal warning and then dusted her. What was remarkable is that she sat down 5 feet away and started complaining to friend that someone got too pushy so she intentionally scratched him and tried to pull down his suit. I don't think that happened to 2 people in the same race. Clearly she did not know the rules, her statement would have been an automatic disqualification if brought to the meet director's attention. But I said nothing, she was just was an inexperienced open water swimmer that should stay in the pool. My point is that not all open water swimmers play by the rules, and the occasional one (as some triatheletes) is a jerk who should stay out of the sport.

RE: Gotta Love those Tri Athletes

Former Member — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 14:43:29 GMT

i participated in about a dozen triathlons in the early to mid 80's. neither wetsuits nor aero bars were standard tri accessories yet. i think the issue many swimmers have with triathlons is that many events go out of there way to make the swim portions friendly to non-swimmers. yeah, i know....the safety thing, but i swim with people who train to push their physical limitations and water temperature is just one obstacle. In Colorado they have recently begun to run a series called the Aquaman, a swim/bike biathlon. Swimming is my first sport however I've been an avid cyclist for years and have many century rides under my belt. So I was thinking of doing a half iron distance that was coming up a 1.2 mile swim and a 56 mile ride. But then I thought about a little more and I asked myself why spend the time and hassle of a transition and interrupt an early start to nice bike ride with a swim that's barely a warm-up.

RE: Gotta Love those Tri Athletes

Former Member — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 14:33:25 GMT

There are far more triathlon races than there are open water swims in this area and that is part of why I do it. Funny part it has renewed my interested in swimming, something I left years ago That is an excellent point! I love doing open-water swims, but they are few and far between in most parts of the country, whereas you could do a tri every weekend (if you were made of money). For whatever reason, tris are a lot more popular.

RE: Gotta Love those Tri Athletes

Former Member — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 14:03:48 GMT

I am a swimmer who does triathlons. 2 years ago I did a sprint tri with an indoor swim and an olympic with a lake swim just to see what they were all about. They were fun and the people were friendly. I went back to them this summer. My first one was Escape from Alcatraz, and yes I bought and wore a wetsuit for the race. It is true you are much faster, at least after you get used to bobbing up and down in the water like a cork. I finished it and am proud that I did. Would I tell anyone "I swam from Alcatraz" - no. It just was too easy with a wetsuit. When I am training for triathlons my swimming is only passable as a swimmer. However I was 150 out of 1600 swimming at Alcatraz and a fractured scapula prevented my from doing any swimming, running or cycling until 5 weeks before the event. At a recent Sprint triathlon I came in second in my age group and was 3 out of 249 overall in the swim. Does that make me a fast swimmer - not in my mind. Does that make me a great triathlete NO WAY. I think I am just good in my age group (55-59) who likes to be outdoors racing. There are far more triathlon races than there are open water swims in this area and that is part of why I do it. Funny part it has renewed my interested in swimming, something I left years ago