Olympic 10k

RE: Olympic 10k

Former Member — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 16:52:41 GMT

Thanks for that detailed response! I watched the whole race closely and still learned a great deal from your post. Thanks for taking the time. What a great addition to the olympics! loved the race!

RE: Olympic 10k

Former Member — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 05:56:13 GMT

Steven Thanks. Your comments were very informative and helpful. I have watched the replays on MSNBC.com. Thank them for me.

RE: Olympic 10k

Former Member — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:30:39 GMT

I apologize in advance for the length of this reply. I was the NBCOlympics.com commentator and carefully observed both the women's and men's Olympic 10K races. Everyone raises and addresses very good issues in this thread. These are my observations based on my experience of being one of the USA Swimming national open water team coaches (since 2001) and a reporter of the past 6 World Open Water Swimming Championships (5K, 10K and 25K races at the 2001, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2007 and 2008 events) 1. Keri-Anne Payne and Cassandra Patten of the U.K. both swam the race of their lives. The pace they set was tremendously fast; faster than any other FINA or world-class race I have seen to date. The Olympics was the closest anyone has come to beat Larisa since she first started to dominate open water swimming in 2004. Keri-Anne and Cassandra almost upset her. It was a great performance from all medalists. 2. The strategy of the 2 British athletes used (vis-a-vis their competitors and between themselves) was reasonable. Although they are both from the same country, they are rivals and they both had dreams of the Olympic gold. Often, it is assumed by Americans that the foreign open water swimmers "team up" and gain advantage their team tactics. However, from my careful observations and one-on-one post-race discussions with the swimmers, all of the athletes want to win, even if it comes at the expense of one of their fellow citizens. Therefore, team tactics are not a factor in these races. 3. Gold medalist Larisa Ilchenko is a special athlete. Although it may appear that she simply drafts, conserves energy and then sprints ahead at the end, this is much much more difficult to do than it may seem from the shoreline. That is, Larisa makes it look so easy, it is a wonder why no one else can do it. The answer is simple: Larisa can swim at any pace her competitors set. If the British swimmers would have set a faster pace, Larisa would have kept up. Secondly, Larisa very aggressively "protects" her second-place position from the start of the 10K to the very point she decides to make her move. That is, if someone attempts to move into the 2nd positon behind the leaders, Larisa moves them out. In the last 30 minutes of the race, Larisa gave a good kick and a few elbows to competitors who tried to move into position. Earlier in the race, there were several other swimmers (including the American, Brazilians and German) who appeared willing to challenge Larisa's position, but were not successful. 4. It is very difficult to make judgment calls on drafting for a variety of reasons. For example, the advantages of drafting occur in relative percentages, depending not only on the proximity of the swimmers, but also water conditions (e.g., less draft advantages come with greater surface chop). 20% energy savings can be achieved when a swimmer will optimally drafting right on the heels of a swimmer in glassy conditions, but 8% energy savings can still be achieved when the swimmer is 1 meter behind or drafting off the hips or lower legs. Therefore, the drafting rule was eliminated from the FINA rulebook and the sport took on the characteristics of bicycle road racing. 5. Visibility at the Olympic 10K course varied depending on the location of the swimmers. The water clarity was not consistent throughout the course. 6. Frequent sightings were used not because the swimmers were navigating the course and wondering if they were swimming in a straight direction. Rather, frequent sightings were used because the swimmers did not want their competitors to make a break or they did not to lose position going in to a turn buoy or feeding station vis-a-vis their competitors. Also, there were other reasons. For example, the best swimmers like to pass their competitors on the side where they breathe less frequently. 7. Under the starting rules of the Olympic 10K, the swimmers are required to have at least one foot at the edge of the starting pontoon (i.e., a track start). But, because of the texture of the starting pontoon, most of the swimmers felt more comfortable placing both feet at the edge of the starting pontoon. 8. Swimmers were given a 5-minute warning, then a 4-minute warning...all the way down to 30 seconds. During those last 30 seconds, it seemed like eternity (because there was no countdown). 9. From what I observed, there was no pulling back or unfair advantage gained by either Larisa (the Russian) or Angela Maurer (the 33-year-old mother of one who placed a close fourth), although Cassandra's comments immediately after the race implied the opposite. Angela traditionally swims a bit more "uncontrolled" than her competitors and she may have hit the feet of Cassandra towards the very end. While this must have been irritating, it did not slow down the momentum of Cassandra - it only pissed her off! From the head referee's boat, it would have been clear if any unfair advantage were gained. The referee, Dennis Miller of Fiji, is one of the most experienced and fair open water judges in the world. 10. Both 10K races will remain on the www.NBCOlympics.com website until September 15th (or so) when the races will be archived on the www.UniversalSports.com website. 11. The most amazing performance I saw, though, had to have been Maarten van der Weijden's win in the men's 10K. He truly swam a "Jason Lezak" type swim - except he did it over 10K and a few years after recovering from leukemia. Maarten has been training a hard 14K per day for the past 3 years and his training really paid off on the biggest stage. I apologize for the length of this reply.

RE: Olympic 10k

Former Member — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 11:07:39 GMT

I'm not sure I could handle someone touching the bottom of my foot almost every stroke for 45 minutes, as the Russian did to the Brit. I thought the standard was that if you keep touching someone's toes they slow down for a stroke and kick you in the face. At least that's my understanding from triathlon.

RE: Olympic 10k

Former Member — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 11:06:13 GMT

greatest comment from Canadian announcer was " the swimmers can see the bottom of the river/canal so it's just like swimming in a pool!!!!" :joker: They had trouble keeping the lane line paint from peeling.

RE: Olympic 10k

ourswimmer — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 01:07:53 GMT

The commentary feature is pretty cool. Thanks, Hopper, for pointing it out. You can sort of jump forward and then scroll back through the comments to see whether or not anything interesting happened. Great men's race, too.

RE: Olympic 10k

Former Member — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 16:30:07 GMT

RE: Olympic 10k

ourswimmer — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 10:59:32 GMT

You can watch the whole race on the nbcolympics.com web site, assuming that your technology supports the video software they require. You can also fast-forward if you don't want to watch two hours of elbows. Britain and Brazil seem to have been the only countries with two swimmers in the race. Both of those pairs tried some team tactics, but with just two and with so little opportunity to communicate either between themselves or with an on-shore coach, they weren't quite able to drop Ilchenko or block her out at the end. Having been in similar situations, although with much less at stake, I found the end of the race pretty exciting to watch.

RE: Olympic 10k

Former Member — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 10:21:00 GMT

I'm not sure I could handle someone touching the bottom of my foot almost every stroke for 45 minutes, as the Russian did to the Brit. I watched almost the whole thing on my laptop while the Red Sox played, which paired nicely. I'll watch the men tonight. If you hit the commentary button on the video player, Steve Muntadones' running text will appear on the screen.

RE: Olympic 10k

ViveBene — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 07:40:21 GMT

Here's a bit from the BBC's live Olympics chat: "Bronze medallist Cassie Patten accused winner Larisa Ilchenko of pulling her feet - but that's par for the course in marathon swimming I'm afraid. It's very much a dog eat dog situation." 1-Larisa Ilchenko, Russia 2-GB 3-GB, Cassie Patten :applaud: Britannia! Natalie du Toit came in 1:22:2 behind leader, after getting her cap tangled in lane lines and trying to straighten it for most of rest of race. Two hands clapping for Natalie!

RE: Olympic 10k

Former Member — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 06:55:09 GMT

I missed the start but there was at least 1.5 hours of swimming side by side. lindsay, as you watched a minimum of 90 minutes of this race with no audio (and very little change in the action) i think you are ideally qualified to join my foreign film club (even though you are a foreigner.....i think) this month's film is a mongolian adaptation of samuel beckett's "waiting for godot" ................you in?

RE: Olympic 10k

tjrpatt — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 06:39:05 GMT

David Davies is in the men's race. He won bronze at Athens in the 1500 and swam in the finals of the 1500 last weekend. The men's race starts at 9PM eastern time. I guess that you have to watch it on nbcolympics.com

RE: Olympic 10k

Former Member — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 06:32:01 GMT

i did only catch the last 30 min. i don't know what preceeded it. I missed the start but there was at least 1.5 hours of swimming side by side.

RE: Olympic 10k

Former Member — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 06:28:33 GMT

Maybe I gave them too much credit for "team tactics," then. I didn't watch the middle and I just assumed that they had been switching off. If they weren't, then they were being pretty foolish. It's not as if they'd never swum against the others before. They should have known who had the potential to draft well and overtake at the finish and who didn't. But of course it isn't billed or medaled as a team sport, so they had a bit of a Prisoner's Dilemma going. i did only catch the last 30 min. i don't know what preceeded it.

RE: Olympic 10k

cantwait4bike — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 06:17:42 GMT

two observations: they were "sighting" about every 4-6 strokes. not sure why. 20-30 seems more typical in tri's. lots of windmill strokes. they sure must have strong shoulders. one thought that would make the race much more fairer: no drafting or 2 minute penalty each time, staggered start about 2 minutes apart (48 minutes total). greatest comment from Canadian announcer was " the swimmers can see the bottom of the river/canal so it's just like swimming in a pool!!!!" :joker:

RE: Olympic 10k

Former Member — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 05:06:17 GMT

I watched the race on the live streaming on CBC, so there was no commentary and it was very boring. Two hours of close ups of the two Brits swimming next to eachother, occasional zoom out to the following pack. Has any major women's 10km race ended any other way than the Russian drafting all the way to the end and then passing the leader(s) for the win? i too watched the last 1/2 hour of the race. i found it much more interesting however. some points to discuss: the two brits never traded places, never switched leads. two swimmers moving at that speed so close to each other create quite a powerful draft for those behind them. when i tuned in it was two brazilians and the russian (winner). the brazilian pair tried to challenge the leaders but were not strong enough when they moved outside the draft. the russian was patient and timed her sprint perfectly to the finish. yes, this is how it always ends, but one would think other swimmers would have figured out that it takes a bit of strategy to win the 10k. if you think you can just go full speed ahead for 2 hours and hold off any challengers at the end.......no gold for you!

RE: Olympic 10k

ourswimmer — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 02:59:57 GMT

I missed the start FWIW, most swimmers used a grab start rather than the trendier track start. :) Honest, they did. The announcer said "take your marks," and then they all dove just about like they would have off blocks. No running in from the beach or treading water behind an imaginary line here.

RE: Olympic 10k

ourswimmer — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 02:11:09 GMT

the two brits never traded places, never switched leads. Maybe I gave them too much credit for "team tactics," then. I didn't watch the middle and I just assumed that they had been switching off. If they weren't, then they were being pretty foolish. It's not as if they'd never swum against the others before. They should have known who had the potential to draft well and overtake at the finish and who didn't. But of course it isn't billed or medaled as a team sport, so they had a bit of a Prisoner's Dilemma going.

RE: Olympic 10k

Former Member — Tue, 19 Aug 2008 14:25:46 GMT

Does anyone know if they will replay the 10K race tomorrow evening on NBC TV?

RE: Olympic 10k

ViveBene — Tue, 19 Aug 2008 09:52:00 GMT

It's on. (The race, not the telly.) And for anyone interested, David Walliams, quite a figure in British entertainment in some fashion, swam the English Channel this morning. As the BBC "live commentators" said, where's his medal? He raised a biggish pile of pledge money. A million pounds? Can't be right. Could be. Is! news.bbc.co.uk/.../5256196.stm