5K Training Advice

RE: 5K Training Advice

Former Member — Mon, 24 Nov 2008 17:43:17 GMT

Geochuck (George Park) I read your bio that appears in the link you provided. We have a lot in common. You had mono at 19 in the middle of the swim season. I had mono at 18 in the middle of the swim season. . . . . Well I guess that is not a lot, but it is something. Bob

RE: 5K Training Advice

Former Member — Mon, 24 Nov 2008 14:43:19 GMT

E=H2O: I breathe bilaterally, every 3 strokes. geochuck: You present good and bad news, I definitely have not been swimming my race distance once a week. However I have been doing very challenging 3500-4500m workouts 4X/week. Aside from the stitch the 5000m continuous race distance did not make me any more tired than the training sessions, in fact I'd have to say it was easier... (felt less tired after). The good news is I did exactly that, I worked around the stitch and eased it out. I did have to hit a few strokes of *** a couple of times. It it did improve during the swim, so I sorted it out - mostly by slowing right the heck down though.... The fairly intense numbness up into my R shoulder joint was very weird. Thanks guys!

RE: 5K Training Advice

Former Member — Sun, 23 Nov 2008 15:31:36 GMT

Thanks for the feedback E=H2O. I don't think I was amped or excited at all, actually very relaxed and enjoyin the swim. I think I got a spasm/stitch from the sustained exertion; first time swimming over an hour non-stop. My question is why did this stitch radiate up into my right shoulder joint? It was also a numb feeling. This was all on my rght side only, left was absolutely fine. Has anyone had this before or know what it might be and how to avoid it? It really slowed me down for 600m until I worked it out slowly.... The last 400m I actually improved from it a fair bit. Thanks!!

RE: 5K Training Advice

Former Member — Sun, 23 Nov 2008 12:54:01 GMT

5000 meters = 3.10685596 miles - not a long swim, not a short swim. You must learn how to swim a race like that. Your race pace is essentially all out but you have to swim it as continuous swim once a week. When racing some long swims I have had leg cramps, arm cramps, stiches, you have to be able to relieve these thing by changing how you swim on the go. I have never taken a breaststroke sequence during a race. For a leg cramp you ease off or kick harder to get circulation going, for a rib stich you change how you reach, it is a cramp of the muscles between the ribs. You just ease off on the stretch it simply disappears with movement.

RE: 5K Training Advice

Former Member — Sun, 23 Nov 2008 07:30:13 GMT

Do you breathe primarily to your left, or were you breathing more to the left than usual? (just a wild guess)

RE: 5K Training Advice

Former Member — Sat, 22 Nov 2008 13:34:40 GMT

That's a tough one. It might be a simple case of being too amp'ed. When swimming all out at that distance, I find I have to focus not only on intensity, but also on staying relaxed. If you don't balance power with flexibility, you can easily overwhelm your muscle groups and cramp. In the days when I routinely swam all out for 5K in a 25 yd pool, I always described the first 500 yds as spooky fast. Not because I was that fast, but that it spooked me to realize I had to do 10 more of those in a row. I finally adjusted mentally to that with practice. It helped me relax and my times improved.

RE: 5K Training Advice

Former Member — Sat, 22 Nov 2008 11:35:38 GMT

Sat. Nov. 22nd SWIM - 5000m on 1hr, 17min, 34secs. 2 weeks to race day (Bonaire EcoSwim). I went 5000m today, the full race distance, this is the furthest I have gone non-stop. I had a hit of water/Gatorade mix at 2500m which would be the 1/2 way turn-around point in the race where you can get a drink. Everything was going great, I counted off in 100's, hauling ass for that distance going mod/fast pace, but still not what would be my "race pace", and at 3950 I got a wicked stitch in my right side which radiated quite sharply up into my right shoulder. (??) I had to ease way back, switch to *** for a few strokes a couple of times, and the stitch stuck around until I finished, but eased off somewhat at 4600m. Kinda weird going up into my R shoulder joint/socket though...??? I think things were going so well the first 4000 that I really kept pushing and picked it up close to entering the last 1000 (I still had a lot of juice left) and that brought on the spasm. Not really sure though.. I have not swam this time or distance continuously before. My workouts have been 2500-4500 all in sets/intervals. Never got a stitch of any kind in my other training. My time for 5000m was 1:17:34. I am very pleased with this but really wonder what it would be without the stitch. That slowed me down quite a bit. (A LOT.) I was shooting for 5000m in 60 mins. I hope I don't get that during the race... (!) I leave for the island in 10 days. Any tips/ideas/suggestions?? This is my first OWS race.

RE: 5K Training Advice

Former Member — Sun, 19 Oct 2008 12:44:58 GMT

If a 5000k is your race, figure out the time you want to swim in a 5 K. Then do a lot of race pace training. Train at the pace you want to swim. Most of your repeats shoud be at race pace. You should throw in some sprint work so you know in the heat of the race you can also pick up the pace for periods.

RE: 5K Training Advice

Former Member — Sat, 18 Oct 2008 15:08:36 GMT

Animal, That workout looks interesting, fun, and effective. Thanks for the tip, it is appreciated.

RE: 5K Training Advice

Animal — Fri, 17 Oct 2008 10:37:22 GMT

Another way to train for th 5 K, instead of swimming straight is to do 5 X 1000 on starting on the 20 minute for the first one. Number 2 is done on say 19:45, 3 is on the 19:30, 4 is on the 19:15 and number 5 is finished by 19:00 minutes. That way you are having to swim harder as the time is reduced. You can break-up your 5 K in any fashion as long as you are reducing the time as you get tired. Good luck and have fun. Animal

RE: 5K Training Advice

Former Member — Fri, 17 Oct 2008 10:21:31 GMT

Thanks srcoyote, I am the exact opposite and function well in warmer temps. I train at 4 different pools here and I find the coolest one at 81F very cool even during intense longer sessions and always have my best workouts in the 87F pool. I hope the Caribbean Sea is very warm the week of Bonaire trip.

RE: 5K Training Advice

srcoyote — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 05:20:30 GMT

Todd: I just looked the EcoSwim up. Looks like great fun. Doubt I could do a 5K in 1:20 in the ocean, though. Mine was in an unusually serene Lake Michigan and was good enough to get me the statistical median in placing (and runned over by some of the grey caps = over 45 ). Water temp also makes a difference for most folks. I prefer the 69 degrees that Lake Michigan gave me in Sept. to the 80+ you are likely to get in the Carribean. Anything 83 or over and I begin to fatigue after a couple miles. But then I train in a pool that's usually about 84 (my only option with schedule and budget). It sounds like you have more than enough mental and physical stamina. Nothing to do but enjoy the scenery when you get there.

RE: 5K Training Advice

Former Member — Thu, 02 Oct 2008 12:35:18 GMT

srcoyote, Thanks for your thoughts. I will be bumping up my swimming even more, and will try a 5k non-stop swim (200 laps in 25m pool...) and see how that feels. I have never swam that far before, ever. But I know based on my workouts that I could no problem. I completed a 3850m session in about 75 minutes with very little fatigue. I'll see what a straight non-stop 5000m race distance feels like. 1:20 would have got you 2nd place overall at the EcoSwim in '07. (1:18:12 won.) I am always eager for tips/hints guys, thanks!

RE: 5K Training Advice

srcoyote — Thu, 02 Oct 2008 01:59:43 GMT

How many days a week should I be training in the pool to prep for this 5k? 4 days/week should be sufficient? I just did a 5K last month for the first time, but it was my fourth open water swim. 4-5 days per week is my norm, but after fatiguing in this summer's 3K, I took the last four weeks before my 5K and upped the training to 6 times/week and making sure that I swam a non-stop 5K distance in the pool at least twice during that period. Worked wonders. Felt good and bested my goal time. (Swam it in 1:20 to put my level of fitness in perspective) In the interest of full disclosure, my idea of a nutrition regimen is beer and burgers.:drink: But then I always argue that what speed I give up in weight and drag, I gain in insulation against the cold water temps. Good luck.

RE: 5K Training Advice

Former Member — Wed, 01 Oct 2008 11:12:07 GMT

Thanks for the info. I wish I knew as much about swimming as I do about weight training & nutrition. But I am learning fast though. It is sure great to be involved in a sport where you can see improvements workout to workout rather than year to year. I am a novice swimmer and training very hard so I am making huge gains right now. How many days a week should I be training in the pool to prep for this 5k? 4 days/week should be sufficient? Thanks for your thoughts.

RE: 5K Training Advice

Former Member — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 16:53:35 GMT

Practice swimming with your eyes closed,..it will help you to swim in a straight line. Also, practice looking at the end of the pool,..Gary Emich calls it "alligator eyes".

RE: 5K Training Advice

Former Member — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 14:05:30 GMT

I'm no expert on weight training so I'm not the best source. That being said, I always did weights after my swim workout. I can't tell you why other than to say I enjoyed my swim workouts and if I did weights first I felt all tied up. Maybe I just didn't stretch enough. Intellectually, I thought doing weights last would give me a chance to target specific muscles and overload them. The following day I always made sure I did a lot of stretching and a LONG warm up swim. I still think though, that you might go with swim specific resistance training instead of weights, and even those I would back off with 3 weeks to go. Olympic swimmers have so fine tuned their bodies the same rules don't necessarily apply. They also have 24 hour coaching to help prevent overtraining or other training mistakes. But in the end, no one is paying us to do this, and there is no Olympics in sight, so do what gets you most excited about swimming.

RE: 5K Training Advice

Former Member — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 12:06:22 GMT

Thanks for the feedback guys! I don't think I could completely stop all weight training, even for 2 months. It is much too ingrained in my routine/lifestyle. I have cut way back already in volume and in intensity. I am quite streamlined/flexible, no "bodybuilder" mass: I'm 6', 175lbs. Even the Olympic swimmers do weights/dryland work, so I think still doing basic exercises 2-3 days/week should be OK. I certainly won't be adding muscle...gone are the days of 16 sets for chest. I'm really focusing on core/ab work and flexibility as these I know are very beneficial to swimming. The trick is going to be fitting it all in; timewise and energy wise. Question: If I was to both swim and do weights on the same day (double shot) what is more beneficial to swimming to do first? (I will be resting a few hours + and definitely eating between these two workouts.) I have tried both and they both feel pretty good, but I think I prefer gym, then the pool. Thoughts?? I will start practicing sighting techniques in the pool. Yes, we can swim the race course in practice swims, that will be indeed be a huge bonus to feel what the ocean is like (sighting, current, sheer volume) versus a 25m pool w/ ropes and walls. Thanks!

RE: 5K Training Advice

Former Member — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 05:14:01 GMT

Gary Emich calls it "alligator eyes". Great description

RE: 5K Training Advice

srcoyote — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 04:34:27 GMT

My first OWS was summer 2007. I tried practicing sighting in the pool the couple of weeks before the swim and found that it was a whole different ball game come race time. That swim was 3K. However, I did find that within 500 meters I had acclimated to all aspects of OWS (sighting, crowds, etc.)short of ocean waves since I was in a lake. I just did my first 5K at the Big Shoulders event and found that my training regimen for that event of using the last 2-3 weeks for almost nothing but swimming 3-5K non-stop in the pool prepared me really well for that swim. If I did interrupt that regimen, it was to do a day that involved nothing but 500 or 1000 yards negative splitting by 100. Good luck, and have fun. It is a such a great sport for mind, body, and soul.

RE: 5K Training Advice

Former Member — Mon, 29 Sep 2008 14:51:55 GMT

Todd My first piece of advice is to stop your weight training now. Use that time to increase your swim training. You might find it useful to practice sighting in your pool swims. Finally, if you have the chance swim the course a couple of days ahead of the race. Swimming hard is not necessary on that day. Use the time to pick out prominent landmarks to help sighting in the race. It will help immensely with the navigation. Good luck.

RE: 5K Training Advice

Former Member — Mon, 29 Sep 2008 11:21:44 GMT

I found this thread great to read through as I am also preparing for a 5k OW swim in about 10 weeks. (Bonaire EcoSwim) This will be my first time swimming in OW. Unfortunately living in rural Ontario there is no OW to swim in, all my training has and will be in 25m pools. I know that we do get to swim the race course and have a few practice swims, I will be on island 4 days before race day. I have been swimming seriously for about a year now. I am a 34 year-old male with 17+ years of experience with weight training/nutrition and fitness/bodybuilding background. Currently just amped my swimming up to 4Xdays week (approx. 2500m - 4000m a session right now) and cut my weight training back to 3X/week. I may even swim 5X/week and cut weights further - not sure yet. I know in the past few weeks since starting to focus on training for this race my swimming has improved incredibly, it is great to be involved in a sport where you can see and feel results week to week as opposed to year to year (bodybuilding). Genetically I have swimming genes/DNA/physique and wish I had found this sport much more sooner but better late than never. I absolutely love it and am looking forward to this race/trip/vacation. Reading the posts here from the original poster's query it seems my biggest obstacle will be a total lack of OW distance swimming; sighting, current/waves, pack/group swimming. (I am going to travel to a 50m pool a few times in November to train.) Always looking forward to any tips/advice from you more experienced swimmers. I have a swimmer from a Masters team in FL also doing this race sending me workouts - any workouts anyone here might suggest for an OW 5k in a SCM pool would be great and appreciated. I will be sure to check out the link and sites suggested earlier in the thread. Thanks in advance for feedback!

RE: 5K Training Advice

Former Member — Wed, 03 Sep 2008 15:35:08 GMT

If I am training for a 5K my goal in the past used to be to swim 6 days a week, but it has been years since I was able to do that. These days I aim for 5 days a week. My body needs more rest and if I swim more than that, the quality of my workouts decrease. I also use to aim for 5K to 7K in a workout but I have reduced those targets as well. That being said I have swam 5Ks training only 3 days a week 4K to 5K a workout. When I do that I just have to reduce my expectations about my results, but I can still have a strong swim and have a great time. However, if you want to race the distance and not just swim it, you have to put in some serious yards or be very fit and have great technique. I recently did a 5K. I have been training for (5 to 6 days/week) and racing sprint triathlons which take about the same time as a 5K. I switched over to pure swimming for 3 weeks. I had a great time. My fitness was high and my technique good. I just had to live with swimming below my potential. I still had a great time.

RE: 5K Training Advice

Former Member — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 13:50:07 GMT

For physical preparation I did all freestyle. 5K to 6K workouts broken down various ways. The focus was to go into the final week being able to swim my race pace doing short rest intervals so I would get the feel for the race but not burn myself out. How many times a week do you swim?

RE: 5K Training Advice

Former Member — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 06:42:16 GMT

On the preparation question... My experience is that you are asking 2 seperate questions (actually a lot more). The first is how to prepare for a 5K swim and the other is how to prepare for an open water swim. I swam in the ocean growing up and had no problem transitioning to an open water race years ago. How you will handle it depends on your background. If open water is new then you need to swim in open water as much as possible. I also strongly advise that you find a 1 mile open water swim to do before hand if you can. There is a lot to learn and much of it is best learned in the water. The second question you raise is how to prepare for a 5K swim. Again that depends on the type of training you have been doing. If you are a distance freestyler, the transition will be easier. If you love to sprint 50s, look forward to an "uncomfortable" experience. Keep in mind that even if you regularly race a 1500 meters or 1650 yards in the pool, 5000 meters is a completely different animal. My approach to a recent 5K swim was to do a 1 mile swim 2 weeks before (heck I even follow my own advise). I learned or relearned everything I needed for the 5K. It was the smartest race I ever swam. For physical preparation I did all freestyle. 5K to 6K workouts broken down various ways. The focus was to go into the final week being able to swim my race pace doing short rest intervals so I would get the feel for the race but not burn myself out. I am also a big fan of staying in control the first 400-500 meters of the race. I always find myself passing people that went out too fast and blew up. I try to take a negative split approach to the swim. However, when I was in top shape and swimming faster, I was loathe to let a leading group get away. So you have to ask yourself if you think you are going to finish in the top 5, you had better not let the lead group gey away.