OW vs. Marathon

RE: OW vs. Marathon

Former Member — Mon, 10 Sep 2007 11:12:49 GMT

For the marathon we begin at 7am, and are considering a 5pm closure as it is a very long day for Volunteers! (Everyone's day begins at 4am as we have to get down to the head of the lake, boats launched, crew organized, motors running etc. We may adjust that to 7pm. The swim is on Vancouver Island, BC Canada. Wetsuits are permitted. Everyone is required to have their own escort craft, non motorized, as well as a minimum of 1 support crew. For the 10km swim we have a course closure of 6 hours. The swims will be listed on the BC Open Water Swim Association (bcowsa). thanks for the interest, hope you will be able to make it! Kiwi

RE: OW vs. Marathon

Former Member — Thu, 06 Sep 2007 16:05:22 GMT

Anyone interested in a marathon swim on the West Coast? I host a 26.2km or 16.2mile swim on the second friday in August. You can swim this as a solo, or on a relay where 2,3, or 4 swimmers form a team. each swimmer swims once and equal distance, so for a team of 2 they change at the 13.1km (8 mile mark) etc. Also hold a 10 km or 6 mile swim second sunday in July. Challenge yourself for 08. Kiwi Are there any time limits on this swim? Where on the West Coast? Do you have a website for it? I'm definitely interested for 08 or maybe 09, that is if I can get away from work and family. I can swim long distances easily, get a comfortable pace and stay with it, but I'm slooow. Thanks!

RE: OW vs. Marathon

Former Member — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 10:26:15 GMT

RE: OW vs. Marathon

FindingMyInnerFish — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 09:37:54 GMT

Hi! It seems to me that one mile swimming is about equivalent to 4 miles running. I looked at some olympic records, to check this. en.wikipedia.org/.../Olympic_record Swim 50 m men 21.91 Run 200 m men 19.32 Ratio SwimTime/RunTime 1.13 Swim 50 m women 24.13 Run 200 m women 21.34 Ratio SwimTime/RunTime 1.13 Swim 100 m men 47.84 Run 400 m men 43.18 Ratio SwimTime/RunTime 1.11 Swim 100 m women 53.52 Run 400 m women 47.60 Ratio SwimTime/RunTime 1.12 Swim 200 m men 1:44.71 Run 800 m men 1.41.11 Ratio SwimTime/RunTime 1.04 Swim 200 m women 1:57.65 Run 800 m women 1:53.28 Ratio SwimTime/RunTime 1.04 Unfortunately, they don't have the 1:4 distance ratio correspondence for races for the longer races - examples: 400 m free vs 1500 m running, 1500 m free vs 5000 m running . For each of the distances, the swim/run4X ratio is pretty much the same for men and women. So the decrease of the ratio as the distances goes longer looks like a trend to me, not just random chance. But does that trend keep going? I'm guessing it does if world class 10k swimming times are typically under 2 hours I //COULD\\ check to see if the ratio is the same for jr's and different age groups. Then maybe do extrapolation assumign that the pace for 1600m would not be different from the 1500 m pace. (TooMuchWork®) :shakeshead: Looks to me the 1:4 ratio is a pretty good approximation, though. That would make a 10K swim roughly equivalent to a marathon (the same way a 24 mile race or a 29 mile race would be roughly equivalent to the marathon) Mick I've heard similar things, and I really would love it if my 5.25 mile swim time was in any way equivalent to my running marathon time. 3:25 for the swim, and my marathon goal is 4:15 (Boston qualifier for my age group). However, unfortunately, I won't have a current pushing me through the marathon. On the upside, though, won't have chop or resulting seasickness. If my swim time were the equivalent of something four times longer running, that would be 26 miles. Add the .2 (not much more) and I'd have a time I now only daydream about (based on my running workouts these days) ... 3:27-3:28 (b/c that last tenth of a mile would HURT). I only WISH! But here's the rub for me...Swimmer setting world record in, say, 200, is no more likely to set a world record in the 800 on the track than the runner who sets the track 800 record is to do the equivalent in a swim 200. Oh well... guess I'll have to hire someone to run my 3:28 marathon until I grow both wings and gills. ;)

RE: OW vs. Marathon

Former Member — Mon, 20 Aug 2007 14:47:00 GMT

Usually in Swimming a 'marathon swim' is a swim over 25km or 15.6 miles. Depending on the day, conditions and course this will take a top marathoner around 5hrs 30 mins. In rougher conditions and where the course is not a series of loops, the time would be around 6 hours. A 10km or a 6 mile event is a popular choice for many Open Water Swimmers. The 10km will be an Olympic event in Beijing. For the past couple of PanPac's it has been an event. I watched the event in 2006 and was amazed at how many swimmers were not prepared for Open Water, yet top in their game in the pool. Swimming outside is different. It is not always the fastest swimmer who wins, rather the one who swims the straightest line. Anyone interested in a marathon swim on the West Coast? I host a 26.2km or 16.2mile swim on the second friday in August. You can swim this as a solo, or on a relay where 2,3, or 4 swimmers form a team. each swimmer swims once and equal distance, so for a team of 2 they change at the 13.1km (8 mile mark) etc. Also hold a 10 km or 6 mile swim second sunday in July. Challenge yourself for 08. Kiwi

RE: OW vs. Marathon

Former Member — Sat, 18 Aug 2007 06:04:57 GMT

Everyone is correct! Conditions, personal ability, etc., all play a role in this issue. I guess you could also look at the other events available. Most recreational runners might easily enter and train for a 10K race and marathons are 4 times longer. The open water swims within the easy reach of most swimmers are in the 1-3 mile range so anywhere from 5-10 miles would be a good ballpark for the "marathon" swim. Last summer I did the 10 mile Lanai-Maui swim in 5:15, though I had been shooting for 4 hours. People who had done it the year before were off their times by about that much due to the conditions. I think my training was comparable to what a good runner might have put in for a marathon if they were almost to that level already. On the other hand, I probably also could have done it again the next day. As someone said earlier in the thread, swimming is just that much more easy on you if you have a good stroke. I also just did the Alcatraz Challenge last week as part of a relay. It was only 1.5 miles but was an absolute butt-whipping due to the wind and waves on the 1st half of the course. Many people who were planning on doing the run bailed out after the swim, and one lady died. I could not have made 10 miles in those conditions. However, there are hot marathons and windy marathons and hilly marathons, and you still have to go the whole way for it to count. My Vote: 10 miles. But there is probably no right answer.

RE: OW vs. Marathon

FindingMyInnerFish — Thu, 16 Aug 2007 09:00:26 GMT

I beleive that is the best way to pick a course. :laugh2::agree: Beer does wonders for decision making! As for equivalent distances, my training for a 5 1/4 mile swim was equivalent, timewise, to my marathon training--shorter swims during the week, longer swims on weekends, until I reached the race distance, then backpedaled last three weeks in a taper. But as Slowswim says, the big challenge with an open water swim that long is there's no easy way to just step off the course. Literally "sink or swim." Although there were official boats patrolling, and one could presumably hitch a ride on one of them if things got dicey, I was grateful I didn't need to. In terms of the time for the actual race... A marathon in my swim time of 3:25:12 would be pure daydream... I'd entirely LOVE such a running marathon time! My fastest marathon (over ten years ago) was just under 3:55.The one drawback on the run is that you don't get a current helping your speed, as I did in my swim--in my swim, they have it set up to start when the tide comes in and the current is behind swimmers. I'm EXTREMELY grateful for that! Running (except for trail running, especially for longer distances) doesn't pit you against the elements in as intimate a way--any weather or water condition can affect a swimmer much more directly--you won't get tunnels, bridges, trees and other temporary wind/rain blocking. There isn't the chance to talk to other competitors in a swim... even couldn't talk that much with my kayaker. Often it felt like me and the water. I was surprised not to feel any need to take refreshments during my swim (well, should say by the time the need arose, I felt too seasick to take in anything, just wanted to keep swimming). But during a marathon, I always have gels, maybe about every five miles. Never could find any gel that agreed with me when I'd do long training swims. But normally have no problems with them when I run. Wonder if that has anything to do w/ body position in swimming.... Also... except for the actual bay swim when it took me about 4-5 days to recover and feel normal, I recover a LOT faster from long swims than from long runs. So, some similarities, some differences... Great to try both... we're all experiments of one!

RE: OW vs. Marathon

Former Member — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 08:53:36 GMT

In elite level swimming a 10k swim takes a bit under 2 hours. For eloite runners the marathon takes a bit over 2 hours. So pretty darn close in that regard. The ironman tri distances were simply the distances of the waikiki roughwater swim, around oahu bike race, and honolulu marathon. They weren't picked because they were in any way equivalent, they were just kinda picked, over a few beers. I beleive that is the best way to pick a course.

RE: OW vs. Marathon

Kevin in MD — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 02:21:43 GMT

RE: OW vs. Marathon

Former Member — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 05:29:06 GMT

Thanks everyone. I figured it'd be in the 5-6 mile territory and I agree there is a certain ease where I can keep moving at a decent pace swimming, but running I get to a "ok I'm ready to just stop people". I'm definitely a sprinter when it comes to the pool, but I'm getting more curious with these open water swims just how far I could go. 10k swim here I come! :0 Gary in running you can stop anytime anywhere. In pool swimming you have to at least get to a wall. In OW, you have two choices: just keep swimming or :drown:

RE: OW vs. Marathon

Former Member — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 12:24:36 GMT

Wow, this is a great topic! If anyone finds any scientific evidence comparing the two events, please share! Off the subject, I do know that swimming anything past 16 miles is considered marathon swimming. But vs. running, not a clue!

RE: OW vs. Marathon

Former Member — Fri, 10 Aug 2007 16:46:11 GMT

Sorry. Server trouble.

RE: OW vs. Marathon

Former Member — Fri, 10 Aug 2007 16:37:20 GMT

I tried to figure this out before. I figure it different for everyone. My swimming efficiency is way lower them most to all y'all, but I'd say my running efficiency is at the high end. I figured by time and perceived effort that (for me) 350m = 1 mile so If I swam 5 3/4 miles I would have completed a marathon. :2cents:

RE: OW vs. Marathon

Former Member — Fri, 10 Aug 2007 05:19:07 GMT

RE: OW vs. Marathon

Former Member — Thu, 09 Aug 2007 10:26:52 GMT

The rule of thumb I've heard a lot is that it's 4 to 1, i.e., a mile of swimming is equal to four miles of running, a 100 yard swim is equal to a 400 yard swim. I don't know how accurate that is -- it's probably based on times, but it seems to me that it might not work for any given swimmer or runner. :dunno: Anyway, if it's valid that would mean the closest equivalent race to a marathon run (26.2 miles) would be a 10K swim (6.2) miles.

RE: OW vs. Marathon

MikeGarr — Thu, 09 Aug 2007 07:59:59 GMT

I was a cross country runner in High school and ran up to a 1/2 marathon. I am not a very competitive swimmer but I was not a particularly competitive runner. I do not think there is any way to compare running to swimming. In swimming you can get a level of effort and stay smooth with technique so you feel like you could go forever. Whatever distance you would do in the time it would take you to do a marathon still wouldn't compare effort-wise. In the water you are never fighting gravity; if you do it right it feels like gravity is helping you. In my case I'd do 8 minute miles, so 3.3 hours, and I swim 2 miles per hour. (over 6 miles). I'm guessing closer to 10 miles, at least. I'm sure there's data on the energy expnded for the long distance swimmers versus long distant runners at the elite level. A valid comparison would have to be based on caloric output.

RE: OW vs. Marathon

Killer — Thu, 09 Aug 2007 04:35:47 GMT

Some one once told me that 3 miles of swimming was like 12 miles running. But that is a hard comparison.