wrist watches at USMS sanctioned meets

RE: wrist watches at USMS sanctioned meets

FindingMyInnerFish — Mon, 27 Jun 2005 06:16:30 GMT

Originally posted by Bobber So I s'pose something like this would be out for pool competitions then... www.cnn.com/.../index.html Pretty cool--but I think I'd have the same problem trying to press the "start" button while diving in--which wouldn't make it as helpful in a meet as one might think. Maybe if there were a device to start it by remote control so a friend or coach could activate it as the swimmer dives. This remote control technology could really go overboard, having coaches figure out how to stop their swimmers' compeitors' watches--or the competitors themselves--holding them in mid-dive like a freeze frame. Okay, bear with me...it's early in the day. ;)

RE: wrist watches at USMS sanctioned meets

Former Member — Fri, 24 Jun 2005 07:33:21 GMT

RE: wrist watches at USMS sanctioned meets

Former Member — Sun, 12 Jun 2005 15:17:38 GMT

OK, I'm back from the Livorno 2.5KM race... asked the (FIN) judge about the wrist watch rule and he had never heard of it before. This man is the judge in about 30 open-water races per season, so I have a feeling he knows his rules. I chose not to wear a watch.. just thought it might bug me on my wrist. By the way, I got the gold for my age category!! (44-49) and am very proud. It was a tough race - the sea was very very rough, the surface water temperature was: 19 degree Celsius = 66.2 degree Fahrenheit Sometimes I almost felt like giving up, but I didn't! YAY! I love open-water swimming! Mary

RE: wrist watches at USMS sanctioned meets

fatboy — Sun, 12 Jun 2005 07:50:59 GMT

Mary, Congratulations on your great swim! Glad you had fun and did so well. Thanks for all the info on the watches. I think that it would bother me to wear a watch too! Frank

RE: wrist watches at USMS sanctioned meets

Former Member — Thu, 09 Jun 2005 16:50:45 GMT

Let the Norwegian Americans show how great they are. I hope you do really well. I checked up on the first Protestan church in Italy. It stillis inthe British conculate in Venice.

RE: wrist watches at USMS sanctioned meets

Former Member — Thu, 09 Jun 2005 10:54:54 GMT

Good luck with your swim Mary!!

RE: wrist watches at USMS sanctioned meets

Former Member — Thu, 09 Jun 2005 10:14:12 GMT

Sunday's swim will be an open-water 2.5KM race in the Med sea. I promise to ask judge his call on the wrist watch issue and let you know on Monday. This is a FIN(A) race for competitive swimmers where Masters swimmers are invited to participate, so the rules should be rules... we'll see how they're interpreted! Mary

RE: wrist watches at USMS sanctioned meets

FindingMyInnerFish — Thu, 09 Jun 2005 10:03:07 GMT

i'm glad I read this, since I'm new to racing...As a runner, I wear my watch in races all the time..no rules as far as I know that prohibit this. I also use a watch during my swim workouts b/c I can't see the pace clock very easily--I have one that's smallish and light with a plastic/rubber watchband, so I doubt it could be a problem by way of injuries. But come to think of it, I doubt it would be too helpful to me in a meet, since I'd then have to coordinate diving in with starting a watch, and simply entering the water correctly without my goggles falling off would be sufficient challenge without starting a watch also. :)

RE: wrist watches at USMS sanctioned meets

Former Member — Wed, 08 Jun 2005 16:57:04 GMT

Mary, Is the swim open water? I heard on BBC World that open water swimming has become the thrid most popular overall sport in Europe, even higher in Italy. Does this mean that now that Americans are really playing soccer, Europeans might abandon it? Also, the first protestant church in Italy was in Venice. It was started by a man from Galesburg. His name was Price. He helped Gharibaldi during the unification. It, unfortuneatly wasn't Lutheran. It was sort of Congregational/Anglican. I believe it is stillinthe British conculate there.

RE: wrist watches at USMS sanctioned meets

Former Member — Wed, 08 Jun 2005 16:42:31 GMT

I'm doing a 2.5KM in Livorno this weekend. I was planning on wearing a watch (just to see my own time at the end of the race, not to pace). I will ask a judge before the race, and see what the Italian FIN take is on this rule. Back on Monday!! Mary

RE: wrist watches at USMS sanctioned meets

Former Member — Wed, 08 Jun 2005 11:39:16 GMT

I did ask at my open water swim this weekend and it was the opinion of the referee that watches (for USA-S) were illegal. Part 7 of the USA-S rulebook (Open Water Swimming) opens with "USA Swimming Rules and Regulations apply to open water competition, unless specifically indicated otherwise in Part Seven". FINA's open water rules open with "All World Championships, World Cups, and FINA competitions shall be governed by the rules of FINA with the following exceptions and additions." I scanned the open water rules and saw nothing that addressed this issue so I would assume from this that watches were illegal due to the base rule not being trumped (in either case) by an exception. (I did just scan so could have missed something.)

RE: wrist watches at USMS sanctioned meets

Kevin in MD — Wed, 08 Jun 2005 04:08:04 GMT

Originally posted by sibleyclan Part 7 of the USA-S rulebook (Open Water Swimming) opens with "USA Swimming Rules and Regulations apply to open water competition, unless specifically indicated otherwise in Part Seven". FINA's open water rules open with "All World Championships, World Cups, and FINA competitions shall be governed by the rules of FINA with the following exceptions and additions." Most regulations are written with a paragraph up front that states applicability and scope of said rule. The long distance section of the usms rules have no such paragraph. So we don't know if the usms long distance arules are in addition to or instead of the regular rules. My notion would be that they are in addition to.

RE: wrist watches at USMS sanctioned meets

Former Member — Mon, 06 Jun 2005 16:47:07 GMT

Originally posted by ljlete I don't know specifically but a quick look at the website ( www.fina.org/openwaterrules.html ) didn't show any rule that could be tagged with that interpretation. Also, USA-Swimming would have made that change/interpretation known at the time they did the pool swimmers. Leo just read it all and saw nothing about the swimmers wearing wrist watches. So, my call is that they are allowed in open water swims. Mary

RE: wrist watches at USMS sanctioned meets

ljlete — Mon, 06 Jun 2005 10:18:28 GMT

I don't know specifically but a quick look at the website ( www.fina.org/openwaterrules.html ) didn't show any rule that could be tagged with that interpretation. Also, USA-Swimming would have made that change/interpretation known at the time they did the pool swimmers. Leo

RE: wrist watches at USMS sanctioned meets

Former Member — Sat, 04 Jun 2005 16:49:27 GMT

Thanks for the explanation, Leo. You don't happen to know the FINA rule for watches in open water swims, do you? I race in Italy. Thanks if you do! Mary

RE: wrist watches at USMS sanctioned meets

ljlete — Fri, 03 Jun 2005 12:42:17 GMT

I can understand that there is come confusion about this since we did make a mistake in getting the rule book out this year. Last July, USA-Swimming changed their rule to add to the equivalent of our 102.15.9 the word "pace" after speed. They did this to be in compliance with FINA rules. At the same time, they indicated that their interpretation of this rule would include writst watches among other devices such as radios that communicate with coaches. The USMS Rules committee voted and chose to follow the USA-Swimming change and their interpretation. So wearing a wrist watch in a meet is not permitted. This does NOT apply to open water swimming. The communication from both USA-Swimming and USMS indicated that officials should approach this rule such that they should warn competitors and ask them to remove the watch rather than sit silently by and then DQ someone. I will ask that the on-line version of the rules be updated to reflect the correct wording of the rule. Sorry for the confusion. Leo

RE: wrist watches at USMS sanctioned meets

Former Member — Fri, 03 Jun 2005 10:56:39 GMT

Originally posted by Rob Copeland There was some confusion when USA-Swimming added language to their disqualification section “102.10.10 (DISQUALIFICATIONS) No swimmer is permitted to wear or use any device or substance to help his/her speed, pace or buoyancy during a race.” Questions were raised about considering wrist watches as “pacing devices”; as I understand it, USA-S determined that watches were not pacing devices and are legal. USMS typically follows USA-S, however USMS 102.15.9 only addresses “speed or buoyancy” NOT pace. For USMS watches are legal. I'm a USA-S stroke & turn judge (with North Carolina Swimming LSC) and, one more than one occaison in the last few months at age group meets, have had the official briefing state that wrist watches were definitely illegal and that we should ask the swimmer to remove it if we noticed it before they got on the blocks but that we should DQ if we caught it in the water. It's then ultimately up to the referee as he/she has to countersign any DQ. I'm actually participating in an open water meet tomorrow and also intend to help officiate the events I'm not participating in. As it's a jointly sanctioned meet, I intend to ask the question at the officials briefing. (My memory being what it is, hopefully I'll *remember* that I intend to ask the question!!! :D )

RE: wrist watches at USMS sanctioned meets

Former Member — Fri, 03 Jun 2005 09:45:26 GMT

Originally posted by 2go+h20 Interesting thread!! Watches banned as they may cause an injury?? How big are they? Happy training. Kiwi Oh, you know, our watches are all big ARMANI things with gold and platinum and diamonds - definitely dangerous!! :D I find hand paddles WAY more dangerous than watches. I was very surprised when I was asked (told) to remove my watch during workout. We don't have a clock in our pool, so I don't know what time to get out... Anyway, this thread is really great, and the conclusion I'm getting (also in the Italian thread) is that the rule of pacing techniques in pool races would be difficult if not impossible to enforce.

RE: wrist watches at USMS sanctioned meets

Former Member — Thu, 02 Jun 2005 16:22:39 GMT

When i don't have on my glasses or certain goggles, I can't see a thing. There could be alarge pace clock on the bottom of the pool & I still woudln't be able to read it. I noticed once that a copach shouted out the time to a swimmer at a competiton. I was really surprised. However, at the tiem I didn't realize that was wrong.

RE: wrist watches at USMS sanctioned meets

Former Member — Thu, 02 Jun 2005 16:16:38 GMT

Originally posted by LindsayNB For pool races, in Italy at least, FINA SW 10.15 applies: SW 10.15 No pace-making shall be permitted, nor may any device be used or plan adopted which has that effect. Gosh - we're all breaking the rules!?!! It could be that at master's meets we are lenient on this rule. Did anyone notice whether the FINA rule was enforced during the World Champs at Riccione in 2004? I did not notice. I'm going to open a similar thread on the Italian Masters Forum... ciao! m

RE: wrist watches at USMS sanctioned meets

Former Member — Thu, 02 Jun 2005 16:09:20 GMT

SW 10.15 No pace-making shall be permitted, nor may any device be used or plan adopted which has that effect. Gosh, this rule would be near impossible to enforce. All a swimmer has to do is simply look in the stands, for their are ten zillion ways to convey time information from people in the stands. I'd venture to say this rule is IMPOSSIBLE to enforce.

RE: wrist watches at USMS sanctioned meets

Former Member — Thu, 02 Jun 2005 13:59:51 GMT

Originally posted by Maryyyyyy In long pool races we can always see the digital pace clock running, and many people have coaches or friends signalling them. I wish I did, and will in the future, as I tend to go too slow and end the race feeling fresher than when I started it. For pool races, in Italy at least, FINA SW 10.15 applies: SW 10.15 No pace-making shall be permitted, nor may any device be used or plan adopted which has that effect. My impression was that the recent move to ban watches was an attempt to bring US rules in line with the above. I was given a warning for wearing a watch in a race in Florida last fall. Under FINA rules any clocks visible to the swimmer should be turned off. Strangely, during the Olympics they talked about the backstrokers watching the scoreboard clock...

RE: wrist watches at USMS sanctioned meets

Former Member — Thu, 02 Jun 2005 13:55:56 GMT

Interesting thread!! Watches banned as they may cause an injury?? How big are they? I wear a watch for training, but when 'racing' I take it off. After all it causes drag!! :p :D :p (I need all the help I can get!!) In Open Water events, I don't wear a watch as what use is it? I can't read it, even with the newer "Aging Iron Man" bigger sized numbers. If I did wear a watch, and tried to look at it during a refuel break it would not help much as it would make me stop longer to try and read the thing. Then ask questions as to how far, etc etc. Which would result in a much slower overall time!! I'm not a techy, so I wouldn't try to set a watch to beep at a regularly scheduled interval. In open water there are too many variables and it would be quite distracting. In an indoor meet, I suppose if you could set your watch for the 50m pace time , and it would continue to beep at this interval ad infinitum until turned off, then I agree this is a 'pacing' tool. However, in an Indoor Meet, I glance at the pace clock, as it seems to be always running. (Not that I can see exactly without my glasses!!, plus I tend to 'forget which colour hand' as I am busy counting lengths and focusing on strategy, which results in brain overload and system slow down to a snail's pace!) Should pace clocks and the scoreboard clock be covered so swimmers (who have OK vision) can't see these 'pacing devices'?? As has been stated, coaches, support staff, team members have definite, and sometimes unique, ways of keeping swimmers on pace. To me, a swimmer who knows their body, knows how to pace, is well trained. Mental training is part of the package. Happy training. Kiwi

RE: wrist watches at USMS sanctioned meets

Former Member — Thu, 02 Jun 2005 10:49:28 GMT

GREAT QUESTION, GREAT THREAD! I've never worn a watch during an OW race, but see everyone else (here in Italy) wearing them, and never questioned they may be against the rules. I thought they were wearing them just to know their own time at the end of the race, without waiting for the official results to come out. What do you think of that? In long pool races we can always see the digital pace clock running, and many people have coaches or friends signalling them. I wish I did, and will in the future, as I tend to go too slow and end the race feeling fresher than when I started it. Wearing watches in the pool DURING workout is against the rules in Italy, because of injuries which may occur if you hit someone. Ciao! m

RE: wrist watches at USMS sanctioned meets

Former Member — Wed, 01 Jun 2005 15:15:51 GMT

Originally posted by Edward The Head I still don't see the point, you can still have some one else time you and tell you what's going on. One argument that I can see against it is that some watches have a function that allows you to set a beeper to go off at a given interval. This would allow you to time your stroke to some predetermined, "optimal" standard. Of itself, I could think of worse things, except if it throws off the stroke of another competitor. When I used to compete in racewalking, people would occasionally do this before it was banned and it drove other competitors nuts. The offender usually got a serious talking-to after the race. Now imagine a pool (or open water race) full of beepers all set to different intervals. Ouch.