How Cheaters Cheat

RE: How Cheaters Cheat

Former Member — Wed, 09 Feb 2011 15:01:01 GMT

It happened to me, I was in the water swimming when the gun went off. I won the race and was not d'qd. Now did I cheat or were the officials nuts. During the 50 Free in my last meet I rolled and jumped the gun on the start. I finished the event and just assumed I was deeked; I figured the overworked starter didn't have time to tell me. I was shocked a couple days later when I saw my name in on-line results in 1st place for the event and not DQ'd. I didn't mean to do it! I hope people realized I would have pushed off the block instead of falling like a tree if I were doing it to gain advantage. Anyway this thread makes me feel a little guilty!

RE: How Cheaters Cheat

ande — Wed, 09 Feb 2011 12:06:32 GMT

This thread could be about drugs but there's many other ways to cheat besides drugs. Like a few years back I heard of a masters swimmer who broke an IM WR. In the race this swimmer did a freestyle turn on the bk to br turn. Just rolled over on stomach, hand never hit the wall & swimmer wasn't DQed. I think this thread should be focused more on cheating in meets, everybody cheats in practice and nobody gets deeked. thought it might be fun to discuss how cheaters cheat & I hope folks avoid personal attacks. Also there's intentional cheating and unintentional cheating. Intentional is doing something on purpose. like taking performance enhancing drugs or sneaking in extra dolphin kicks on breastroke. Unintentional is unplanned. like leaving early on a relay because a teammate messed up their touch. I thought this thread would be about drugs, not what swimmers do in masters perogative practices. :bolt:

RE: How Cheaters Cheat

pmccoy — Wed, 09 Feb 2011 09:25:57 GMT

I come off the wall on my back,do a dolphin kick,then do a BR pullout,then take 4 more BR strokes(regular stroke,except underwater on my back) and then surface(and slow down,my BK is bad.I swam a 200 BK LCM once and I had to make sure the timers had calendar watches.) Tried this out this morning. First time, I nearly drowned. All sorts of water up my nose. The next time, it went better. The problem was that as soon as I surfaced, the brakes came on before I could get my first stroke in. The plus side was that I got a full 10 meters in before I had to do a stroke :). I see some benefit here if I can transition from upside down *** stroke to back stroke a little smoother. I'm swimming a 200 backstroke in a meet this weekend right before 50 ***. I'm not taking the 200 back too seriously so I wonder if this might be a good warm-up for my next event.

RE: How Cheaters Cheat

pmccoy — Wed, 09 Feb 2011 01:10:26 GMT

I thought I had inadvertently cheated last year. I was swimming *** stroke on the 200 IM Relay and it was my first relay since I was 13. I got a little excited, dove in and forgot what stroke I was swimming. After one sdk it all came back and I quickly completed the pull-out and went on certain I'd be dq'd. I told my teammates what I did and that if we got dq'd it was my fault. They calmly replied "um... you can do that now."

RE: How Cheaters Cheat

Former Member — Tue, 08 Feb 2011 10:10:50 GMT

Me too. I've never once pulled on a lane line. I'm all about the one handed turns in practice though. I got tendonitis once from too much lane-line pulling. I'm better at it now though

RE: How Cheaters Cheat

Elaine Krugman — Tue, 08 Feb 2011 09:43:08 GMT

RE: How Cheaters Cheat

Allen Stark — Tue, 08 Feb 2011 06:07:19 GMT

Just clarifying on this... you swim upside down *** stroke pull-outs for 15m? Interesting... I'm in the same situation (slow back/fast *** stroke) but I'd have never thought of trying something like this. edit: by "slow"... I mean slower than my *** stroke... not to imply that you swim any stroke slow... just that I'm slow... can someone pull my foot out of my mouth? I come off the wall on my back,do a dolphin kick,then do a BR pullout,then take 4 more BR strokes(regular stroke,except underwater on my back) and then surface(and slow down,my BK is bad.I swam a 200 BK LCM once and I had to make sure the timers had calendar watches.)

RE: How Cheaters Cheat

pmccoy — Tue, 08 Feb 2011 05:07:55 GMT

(In the BK leg of the 100 IM I try to swim 15 M underwater BR on my back as my BR is much faster than my BK or my SDK.)Just clarifying on this... you swim upside down *** stroke pull-outs for 15m? Interesting... I'm in the same situation (slow back/fast *** stroke) but I'd have never thought of trying something like this. edit: by "slow"... I mean slower than my *** stroke... not to imply that you swim any stroke slow... just that I'm slow... can someone pull my foot out of my mouth?

RE: How Cheaters Cheat

Allen Stark — Tue, 08 Feb 2011 01:34:55 GMT

Is it dolpining as part of the dive where the feet, calves haven't entered yet? PS. Can you do a pulldown in the other strokes? I think it is not a dolphin kick if the feet haven't entered. You can do a pulldown in free as long as you don't go past 15M,but it probably isn't faster.You can do a pulldown in BK as long as you are on your back,in fact I do on the rare occasions I swim BK.(In the BK leg of the 100 IM I try to swim 15 M underwater BR on my back as my BR is much faster than my BK or my SDK.)

RE: How Cheaters Cheat

Former Member — Mon, 07 Feb 2011 17:32:40 GMT

Very interesting! ... some reference to banned or previously banned swimmers. And names weren't even named. My question is....ARE THEY BACK AND WERE ANY OF THEIR TOP TENS AND/OR RECORDS AND/OR RELAY RECORDS RESCINDED????? The rumor I heard wasn't from an authoritative source. I don't know the details of the punishment nor do I feel it appropriate to mention names in the case I was told about. It makes sense that the swims would have been disallowed from consideration for records/top ten as the swimmer had committed the infraction (falsifying entry) prior to the swim.

RE: How Cheaters Cheat

Chris Stevenson — Mon, 07 Feb 2011 08:34:14 GMT

My question is....ARE THEY BACK AND WERE ANY OF THEIR TOP TENS AND/OR RECORDS AND/OR RELAY RECORDS RESCINDED? I only know of one case, which doesn't mean there aren't others. I had to scrub all of this person's Top 10 swims from the pre-1993 data we loaded last year, so I assume this has been done for any other cases as well.

RE: How Cheaters Cheat

Former Member — Mon, 07 Feb 2011 07:05:49 GMT

Which reminds me, is there anything worse then when you grab one of these "hand holds" and it just slides along the cable and you don't get any oomph out of it at all? From my experience, this happens because that rapscallion in the lane next to you is cheating by pulling on the hand hold. It is quite frustrating when I get it all stacked up in my favor and somebody swims along and spoils my party. Boo hoo.

RE: How Cheaters Cheat

Stevepowell — Mon, 07 Feb 2011 06:34:01 GMT

How cheaters cheat,one way in BR is dolphin as soon as you hit the water,... Is it dolpining as part of the dive where the feet, calves haven't entered yet? PS. Can you do a pulldown in the other strokes?

RE: How Cheaters Cheat

Allen Stark — Mon, 07 Feb 2011 03:50:36 GMT

First year in High School I didn't letter because I barely didn't have enough points.I would have had I not gotten DQd for a one handed BR turn.That's the last time I did a one handed BR turn.Practice how you race.

RE: How Cheaters Cheat

no200fly — Mon, 07 Feb 2011 03:11:58 GMT

I use them occasionally in freestyle as I come out of a streamline, but rather than pulling with my bottom arm to level my body, I just use the top arm to grab those hand holds on the lane line and get going. :) Tried it today - can't do it

RE: How Cheaters Cheat

no200fly — Mon, 07 Feb 2011 03:06:24 GMT

I've never really understood the impulse to pull on lane lines. It totally teaches the wrong mechanics in backstroke. And it is bad for the lane lines too, and they ain't cheap. Plus I'm not any good at it -- it actually slows me down -- so it costs me nothing to get all "purist" about it.... :bolt: The other thing pulling on the lane ropes does is keep you from inappropriately touching the women in the next lane over when you swim close to the rope. Thus I feel a noble purpose in this "cheat." I agree that it is not as fast, but for me it is a lot easier. As you can tell, I am not really that fond of a stroke where you get water in your nose. If not for the IM, I would be in favor of sending it the way of tech suits.

RE: How Cheaters Cheat

The Fortress — Mon, 07 Feb 2011 02:53:57 GMT

I've never really understood the impulse to pull on lane lines. It totally teaches the wrong mechanics in backstroke. Me too. I've never once pulled on a lane line. I'm all about the one handed turns in practice though.

RE: How Cheaters Cheat

osterber — Mon, 07 Feb 2011 02:36:30 GMT

In the workout space... I only have a problem with drafters who pretend they're not drafting. I happen to be extremely easy to drag off of. Lots of smooth moving water behind me. It is often said the best place to be in the pool is about 3 seconds behind me. If you're having a tough workout, or you're stepping up a lane, etc., I have no issue with you getting on my feet. However, if you're going to pretend that your time was 'unassisted', then that ticks me off. If you're shamelessly dragging... you gotta be honest with yourself about it. -Rick

RE: How Cheaters Cheat

osterber — Mon, 07 Feb 2011 02:28:13 GMT

I knowingly cheated once in a race. It was a 50 SCM backstroke. I am not a backstroker. I was doing it for fun. I happened to notice that (a) there was no marking at the 15 meter mark, and (b) no official anywhere near where the 15 meter mark would be. On the start, I was definitely underwater more than 15 meters. My head popped up just before the far flags. No disqualification as there was no official in position. The referee (a good friend) came to me after the race and asked if I had known there was nobody at the 15M mark. I nodded. The referee said "I thought so" with a smile. The referee said they would have DQed me if I had gone past the flags, but they couldn't enforce a DQ otherwise. It wasn't a record or notable time in any way, so my guilt level was rather low. Had it been, I absolutely would have found a way to disqualify myself. -Rick

RE: How Cheaters Cheat

Chris Stevenson — Mon, 07 Feb 2011 02:01:59 GMT

RE: How Cheaters Cheat

knelson — Mon, 07 Feb 2011 01:43:44 GMT

If pulling on the lane ropes in practice was cheating, they wouldn't have put hand holds all along the length of the rope. I agree! Which reminds me, is there anything worse then when you grab one of these "hand holds" and it just slides along the cable and you don't get any oomph out of it at all? I hate when that happens!

RE: How Cheaters Cheat

Michael Heather — Sun, 06 Feb 2011 12:30:40 GMT

I think the most popular cheat in practice is the leadoff swimmer going 2-3 seconds early, followed by the trailing swimmers in the lane leaving on his feet. no interval, just early sendoffs to get a good time. Finishing the swim, they pull their head up and out of the water with a flourish to see their time on the pace clock, but their hand is 5 feet from the wall. And they all complain about how crummy their times are in races. " I do better than this in workout!" Well, duh. The next good practice cheat is the mid-lap turn. Can't keep up with the lane in a 500? No problem, you can pick up a 25 (or almost 50 m in long course) by turning around under the recall ropes! Don't forget the backstroke help by pulling on the lane lines. Or breaststroke help by doing continuous dolphin and/or flutter kicks during the 20 yard pullout. Did I miss any?

RE: How Cheaters Cheat

jaadams1 — Sun, 06 Feb 2011 11:33:49 GMT

So... personal attacks are what get posts deleted? Interesting.... OK I'm kind of new at this but I guess I have to take one for the team here. :banana:That Guy has below average intelligence! :banana: Delete this post! :banana: Am I doing it wrong? You said it first!!! :bolt:

RE: How Cheaters Cheat

That Guy — Sun, 06 Feb 2011 11:25:16 GMT

Did I miss any? using fins in a non-fin set :bolt:

RE: How Cheaters Cheat

The Fortress — Sun, 06 Feb 2011 11:02:02 GMT