Freestyle Video

RE: Freestyle Video

Former Member — Sat, 25 Dec 2010 16:37:11 GMT

Phelps could swim like that but he certainly won't break any records. To set the story straight, the power curve of every competitive stroke shows the first quadrant (the beginning) as a lack luster at best, power producer. The beginning "sets-up" the stroke - Period - No discussion. The catch up stroke in serious competition is not a serious swimming strategy. As times continue to drop, keeping one arm in the most effective power producing phase is critical. The ability to catch effectively and maintain constant pressure (producing the most drag) throughout the stroke separates every level of swimmer. The endless pool is too cool and when my rich uncle sends me the money, I'm getting one. The music is cool in the video but the stroke isn't a contemporary example of technically good swimming. Good luck and happy holidays.

RE: Freestyle Video

Former Member — Thu, 23 Dec 2010 16:41:01 GMT

As stated previously the stroke may be strange because of the endless pool and because of how slow he is swimming. I do not agree with everyone who says his stroke is too wide, if you are a sprint distance freestyle swimmer, your stroke should be wider. With that in mind he does not appear to be a sprint distance swimmer because of his speed and because his kick is a distance swimmers kick. His stroke is VERY unusual in that his hands are flexed when they hit the water, he leaves his arm in the forward position while completing each stroke, and his head is WAY to deep. He also seems to be taking his breath too late which is probably caused by his head being too deep in the water. Just my two cents worth.

RE: Freestyle Video

Former Member — Thu, 23 Dec 2010 12:10:33 GMT

rtodd Re: Freestyle Video I would argue the power output in a 100 is closer to 400-500 watts minimum, perhaps even approaching 1 hp. Please see the following link. When the PDF file opens, go to page 6. You will see a graph of force vs. velocity for a male freestyle Olympic medalist. At the peak velocity the average propulsive force numbers from this study are in agreement with the propulsive force numbers reported in the previous post. The propulsive force numbers you reported are quite a bit higher. www.swimmingcoach.org/.../mag1.pdf Budd

RE: Freestyle Video

Former Member — Thu, 23 Dec 2010 10:14:30 GMT

Knelson I do not know what the pool length is. Those white markers on the lane ropes appear to indicate 15 feet to the turn. That pool appears to be 8 lanes wide and 8 foot lanes make it 64 feet long but if the lanes are 7 feet wide it would be 54 feet long. 7.5 lanes would make it 60 ft long. I call for a measurement not a guess. Where is this pool? Has anyone measured it. Please somebody tell us no more guessing. The pool looks like a L shaped pool and they swim accross the L.

RE: Freestyle Video

knelson — Thu, 23 Dec 2010 10:13:47 GMT

If you are choosing to model your stroke after this guy's, then I am guessing you are doing longer swims, open water swims, where you are wanting to conserve energy. Yes, definitely an endurance stroke where minimizing drag--possibly at the expense of propulsion--is the goal. Open water and triathlons come to mind. For those purposes I think this stroke would work well. It seems a little exaggerated, almost like he's doing a drill the entire time, but there's no question he's moving along at a decent clip without expending much energy.

RE: Freestyle Video

rtodd — Thu, 23 Dec 2010 10:12:28 GMT

I think he is demonstrating a clean simple freestyle from which to build on and I think that is his intent. Swimming with pace will (should) make that stroke look completely different. I'm sure if he posted his 500 for time it would look different. For starters, you can't take four breaths per 50 in the 500 like he is doing here.

RE: Freestyle Video

Former Member — Thu, 23 Dec 2010 07:40:01 GMT

Yes, definitely an endurance stroke where minimizing drag--possibly at the expense of propulsion--is the goal. Open water and triathlons come to mind. For those purposes I think this stroke would work well. It seems a little exaggerated, almost like he's doing a drill the entire time, but there's no question he's moving along at a decent clip without expending much energy. He is not minimizing drag with his body that flat and his head that low... You can't swim open water with your head like that either. And no he is not moving at a decent clip... he is 36 seconds in a 40 yard pool which is really slow. I'm thinking maybe 1:30 pace per 100... yards.

RE: Freestyle Video

knelson — Thu, 23 Dec 2010 03:27:52 GMT

I don't want to hear this BS about the pool being 20 yards. It's clearly either a 25 yard or meter pool. I can see the white floats indicating 15 meters and they are definitely more than 5 yards from the end of the pool (solid color floats). It's about a 34 second 50 yard swim with a very easy open turn. I think that's decent when you consider how effortless it looks.

RE: Freestyle Video

rtodd — Thu, 23 Dec 2010 01:38:36 GMT

Please see the following link. When the PDF file opens, go to page 6. You will see a graph of force vs. velocity for a male freestyle Olympic medalist. At the peak velocity the average propulsive force numbers from this study are in agreement with the propulsive force numbers reported in the previous post. The propulsive force numbers you reported are quite a bit higher. OK, the hands (I guess excuding forearms) do not provide much propulsive force and may work out to show only 33 watts. This is suprisingly low, but perhaps accurate. My point was the person as a whole is probably in the vacinity of 1 hp of power output when in full sprint mode. I guess the breakdown is 33 watts to the hands during the pull and around 700 watts to the legs and to the recoverying arms.

RE: Freestyle Video

Former Member — Tue, 21 Dec 2010 11:44:58 GMT

Originally posted by taruky - Popov's power and catch were huge factors in his success, Something to consider: When Popov broke Matt Biondi's world record in the 100 freesyle he actually used "Less" power than Biondi. Shortly after Popov set the new record, a Russian sports scientist named Dr. Sergei Kolmodorov calculated that Biondi used 33 watts of propulsive power (23.34 foot lbs. converted) when he set the record. When Popov lowered the record, Dr. Sergei reported a power output of only 24 watts, (17.70 foot lbs. force converted) or almost 30 percent less power than Biondi to go faster, and set a new world record. Budd

RE: Freestyle Video

Former Member — Tue, 21 Dec 2010 11:35:59 GMT

What I would like to hear from all the TI guys is, what do they think of the video. 1. Do they think this is the right way to swim? 2. Would they use this as an ideal video in their program? 3. What I would like to ask and will I get an answer?

RE: Freestyle Video

Former Member — Tue, 21 Dec 2010 10:18:51 GMT

I don't find what he is doing would work for open water swimming either.I agree with the others. There are much better techniques out there. If you are choosing to model your stroke after this guy's, then I am guessing you are doing longer swims, open water swims, where you are wanting to conserve energy. When I look at this stroke, I feel that he isn't reaching out far enough. He is not getting enough out of each stroke because he isn't reaching. I see this quite a bit with lesser experienced swimmers doing laps. Reaching out will help your hips rotate as well. He also doesn't attack the water. He's very relaxed, almost like he is swimming while asleep. Whatever you are wanting to do, find elite swimmers on youtube and learn from their strokes. For example, if open water is your game, search on that, or if 50 free is your style, there is a lot out there. This video is fine, but I wouldn't make the claim that this is the "ideal" swim technique. Ideal will vary from person to person and event.

RE: Freestyle Video

Former Member — Tue, 21 Dec 2010 09:43:21 GMT

I agree with the others. There are much better techniques out there. TriBy3 co-owner and swim coach Stefan Bill demonstrates the ideal swim technique in the Endless Pool and in a lap pool. Maybe this is ideal for him, but I wouldn't model my stroke after his. What is your end goal? If you are choosing to model your stroke after this guy's, then I am guessing you are doing longer swims, open water swims, where you are wanting to conserve energy. When I look at this stroke, I feel that he isn't reaching out far enough. He is not getting enough out of each stroke because he isn't reaching. I see this quite a bit with lesser experienced swimmers doing laps. Reaching out will help your hips rotate as well. He also doesn't attack the water. He's very relaxed, almost like he is swimming while asleep. Whatever you are wanting to do, find elite swimmers on youtube and learn from their strokes. For example, if open water is your game, search on that, or if 50 free is your style, there is a lot out there. This video is fine, but I wouldn't make the claim that this is the "ideal" swim technique. Ideal will vary from person to person and event.

RE: Freestyle Video

rtodd — Tue, 21 Dec 2010 07:45:51 GMT

I would argue the power output in a 100 is closer to 400-500 watts minimum, perhaps even approaching 1 hp.

RE: Freestyle Video

taruky — Tue, 21 Dec 2010 05:59:41 GMT

I would agree that the pool doesn't look like 50 yards. I counted 9 strokes which is pretty low even for the most accomplished swimmer (unless they are really trying to glide as much as possible). This is pretty typical TI swimming. The spearing arm recovery and the delayed, almost catch-up style catch are recognizable. Yeah it is designed more for long distance or open water swimming. Something interesting about TI that always raised my eyebrows. I read Laughlin's book about 3 years ago and he makes very frequent references to Alexander Popov as a model of efficiency. Now, the thing is, Popov had absolutely nothing whatsoever resembling a front quadrant style of swimming. Laughin in essence uses his name to lend his book some credence, but really the only thing Popov like about TI is the balance. Popov's power and catch were huge factors in his success, whereas TI makes these topics afterthoughts. That said, there is a lot to learn from the book.

RE: Freestyle Video

Former Member — Sun, 19 Dec 2010 16:17:01 GMT

I guess one question raised by the discussion is whether endless pools are a good teaching tool. Perhaps they distort the stroke? Another is whether good coaches need to be good swimmers. Although it's always tempting to say physician heal thyself, I'm not sure they do. Of course if their conception of an ideal stroke, as opposed to their execution, is flawed that is another matter.

RE: Freestyle Video

Former Member — Sat, 18 Dec 2010 12:23:40 GMT

The pool appears to be a 60 footer not a 75 foot pool. The time 36 is not for a 50 yard swim. It may be a 40 yard swim. Guys who are swimming hard do a 40yd swim in 15 to 18 seconds. My time in 1952 was 18 seconds for a 40yd swim. Stroke is too wide, he has limited rotation and does not really swim on the long axis. His right hand also cocks out to the side as he starts his catch. BTW that was 36 seconds for the 50... and that stuff about heart rate is kinda deceiving. Is that 70 below max on land... Heart rate in water is generally lower. That and he only did a 50...

RE: Freestyle Video

orca1946 — Sat, 18 Dec 2010 06:47:34 GMT

His stroke looks as if he is doing a 10K swim, very relaxed & easy.

RE: Freestyle Video

Former Member — Sat, 18 Dec 2010 06:26:15 GMT

Stroke is too wide, he has limited rotation and does not really swim on the long axis. His right hand also cocks out to the side as he starts his catch. BTW that was 36 seconds for the 50... and that stuff about heart rate is kinda deceiving. Is that 70 below max on land... Heart rate in water is generally lower. That and he only did a 50...

RE: Freestyle Video

__steve__ — Fri, 17 Dec 2010 11:09:46 GMT

I think the person has a very smooth and fluent stroke. The catch is probably wide for the turbulence created.

RE: Freestyle Video

Former Member — Wed, 15 Dec 2010 14:14:53 GMT

Would anyone care to share their thoughts on this guy's stroke?

RE: Freestyle Video

Former Member — Wed, 15 Dec 2010 12:58:34 GMT

This is me, maybe not a great video but I am in a swim in place pool and as you can see it is at a very slow pace YouTube - George in the River Pool

RE: Freestyle Video

DPC — Wed, 15 Dec 2010 12:04:29 GMT

The arms do look a bit wide and the wrist is breaking on entry - this will slow you down. This may be a function of swimming in an "endless pool" where the slower and more deliberate stroke would keep him steady and not smash into the front of the water jet. If there is video swimming in a standard lap pool lane I'm sure that may be more informative.

RE: Freestyle Video

Former Member — Wed, 15 Dec 2010 11:56:40 GMT

I would find it hard to find anything good about his stroke. The problem is that he does not enter his hands properly. Yes they are too wide the hands are flexed out and it looks like he is pushing against the water with the back of his hands. I think I can tell that he learned his technique from a DVD that I would not ever buy. The Endles pool is a hard to swim in item you have to bury your head very deep in order to keep your legs up. He also ran the pool in a very slow position this made it awkward to get into the proper position. In the Endless pool it seem he finished above his waist line, I would sooner he finish a little lower Just don't try to copy what you see he may not swim like this video shows. However he may be a great teacher? Thanks for the feedback. Very helpful. Based on what everyone has said, I will look for better examples of the freestyle stroke to study. Thanks.

RE: Freestyle Video

Former Member — Wed, 15 Dec 2010 10:38:52 GMT

Just found out who this fellow is www.totalimmersion.net/.../CoachStefan so I better not critic.