Body development - swimming versus dryland

RE: Body development - swimming versus dryland

Former Member — Fri, 12 Nov 2010 15:12:33 GMT

Something else for you to look into is water polo. Their training is very similar to what you are considering, sprinting and strength training.

RE: Body development - swimming versus dryland

Former Member — Wed, 10 Nov 2010 16:18:38 GMT

RE: Body development - swimming versus dryland

Former Member — Wed, 10 Nov 2010 09:37:02 GMT

BigBrother, Sounds like you are a hard gainer. Your goals and your physiology are at odds and based on your previous comments I don't think it really matters what you do, your goal is going to have to be a very long term goal, and swimming is probably not going to provide the musculature that you are looking for. If you want to research the diet and training that has worked for hard gainers and try to replace the lifting with swimming, it might work, but I doubt it. Your best bet is to find a lifting routine that is upper body focused, lift heavy no more than 3x/week and manage your diet toward for weight gain. Good luck Qbrain, very good advice. I guess it all brings me back though to my fundamental question, which is really at the heart of everything. Does swimming (of the sprint variety), done concurrently with weights/dryland, lead to different muscular building than weights alone? All the evidence I've observed seems to point to yes: 1. Swimmers alone don't have the build. 2. Lifters alone don't have the build. 3. The athletes who do both seem to have it. That's about all I got :). I can't substantiate it, but it seems like both activities simultaneously lead to a particular result you don't get with either alone. So now, on to finding the right balance of the two, and the right diet. So close! I was able to get to as high as 165, but with some added fat along with muscle, before cutting back down to 145 on P90X. If I can retain the current BF% (~6%) and gain back up to 155, I think I'll be as good as done. Thanks a lot all, and if you do still have any further advice, chime in!!

RE: Body development - swimming versus dryland

Former Member — Mon, 08 Nov 2010 11:33:28 GMT

If you're tracking calories for either weight loss or gain, you might like the MyPlate tool on livestrong.com: www.livestrong.com/.../ Thanks. I already keep a pretty meticulous spreadsheet in google for this, but always useful to see more tools!

RE: Body development - swimming versus dryland

Former Member — Mon, 08 Nov 2010 06:50:09 GMT

If you're tracking calories for either weight loss or gain, you might like the MyPlate tool on livestrong.com: www.livestrong.com/.../

RE: Body development - swimming versus dryland

orca1946 — Mon, 08 Nov 2010 04:38:45 GMT

Well as an almost 65 masters swimmer , who looks more like a Sumo wrestler than a swimmer, weights at the gym always pay off !!

RE: Body development - swimming versus dryland

Former Member — Sun, 07 Nov 2010 10:00:07 GMT

Thanks!

RE: Body development - swimming versus dryland

Jimbosback — Sun, 07 Nov 2010 01:08:08 GMT

It is really difficult to meet a goal based on physique. What you should be aiming for is steady improvement in whatever sport(s) or activities you choose. If that's going to include swimming, assess where you are currently and set up a plan to take small steps to get where you want to be. Push a little harder today than yesterday. Physique will follow. If you noted your swimming experience, I missed it, but the only way to have the body of a swimmer is to be a swimmer. If you don't have that experience, especially during formative years, it will take a long time to develop. Arthur was correct regarding weight gain. It really is as simple as taking in more than you are putting out. You are probably right that you have a very high metabolism. The first step in managing weight should be to accurately assess how many calories you are burning. To gain wieght, take in more; to lose take in less. Genetics and activity will determine where the weight is added or lost. :2cents:

RE: Body development - swimming versus dryland

Former Member — Sat, 06 Nov 2010 13:24:44 GMT

ndecker, thanks. Perhaps I should have clarified what I meant. You're right with the guys who grace the cover of like "JUICED Magazine" :). That's not exactly what I had in mind. What I was referring to was more proportion, and you've probably seen this- lifting in the traditional sense, with an all around, balanced set of exercises, tends to produce two results I'm not a huge fan of - very large triceps, very large upper traps and pronounced lower lats. Look at any bodybuilder or your local gym rat and you'll see what I'm talking about- it's as though the back "half" of you gets really large. Now, that's all well and good and those guys go for bulk, for which those muscles are necessary. The thing I always liked about the swimmers' physiques was that arms, neck, and midesction remained very slim, but mid back and chest gained a lot of bulk. THAT's what I'm gunning for. When I used to do the traditional weight routine (bench in various forms, curls, pullups, etc.), a lot of my gains came in exactly those areas I mentioned above. That's why, after seeing my local college's dryland routine and realizing it wasn't that different from a normal weight regimen, I figured it must be the combo of the two that produces it. Maybe it's like double stimulation for the back and chest compared to the rest of the body, since they both get worked in the weightroom and in the water, moreso I'd imagine than any other set of muscles. Anyway, I appreciate again you guys entertaining this thread on here and giving me input, given it's not exactly a pure swimming one :)

RE: Body development - swimming versus dryland

Former Member — Sat, 06 Nov 2010 12:56:17 GMT

If you want to look like elite level swimmers just follow their training plan. 10-20k yards a day in the pool, 3x/week dry lands for about 10-15 years and you should have the results you want.

RE: Body development - swimming versus dryland

Former Member — Sat, 06 Nov 2010 11:23:37 GMT

I'm pretty sure Popov didn't lift. I believe his dryland work consisted of core and flexibility work with a swiss ball.

RE: Body development - swimming versus dryland

rtodd — Sat, 06 Nov 2010 10:34:59 GMT

RE: Body development - swimming versus dryland

ndecker — Sat, 06 Nov 2010 08:32:11 GMT

So it's not a huge ways off, I just need to figure out how these guys are bulking without getting the usual meat head look most guys get from lifting too much. Well, you've got several things going for you, the most important being that: - you've made good progress already - you have a reasonable end goal in mind that's not very far off and is attainable As far as the 'bulking' and 'meat head' look, that's actually incredibly hard to achieve for the average person - if not impossible. Those guys usually end up resorting to drugs to get big and huge, as otherwise it would take a decade's worth of dedicated lifting and eating to put on a large amount of muscle. Most guys are impatient, and they're not in it for the long haul or even the health benefits - thus the drugs. So lift away, I don't think you'll end up getting too big. And in the off chance you get to the point where you're putting on too muscle, just cut back a little :)

RE: Body development - swimming versus dryland

Former Member — Sat, 06 Nov 2010 08:25:04 GMT

Thanks for the advice

RE: Body development - swimming versus dryland

Former Member — Sat, 06 Nov 2010 07:54:55 GMT

29, but look and seem to burn calories like I'm about 18-20.

RE: Body development - swimming versus dryland

Former Member — Sat, 06 Nov 2010 07:27:30 GMT

Some of the guys today are monsters, like Hall Jr, Adrian, Leezak, Phelps, Bernard, to name a few, but I gotta say, Popov had the ultimate swimming body, streamlined yet powerful. YouTube - 1998 | Michael Klim Vs Alex Popov | 1998 World Champs | Mens 100 Freestyle Yeah, and that's what I mean- if you look at Popoy, that's neither the build of a lifter nor the build of a pre-modern era swimmer. The only logical conclusion I can draw is that it's got to be the combination of the two that produces it. Lifting must add mass where you see it (chest, back), but swimming must provide the slimming (arms, midsection) that lifters often don't have. If you want to look like elite level swimmers just follow their training plan. 10-20k yards a day in the pool, 3x/week dry lands for about 10-15 years and you should have the results you want. Heh, I hear you, but I think there has to be a happy medium. These guys hit a limit at some point past which they stop becoming physically larger, otherwise olympians would be 20X larger than their masters swimmer's equivalents! I just need to find the right mix that pushes it in the right direction. At this point I'm leaning toward simply replacing one swim workout a week with weights, the workouts of which I was fortunately given by my local college's swim coach. That would put me at a 2:1 sprint swim to dryland ratio. If you lift weights without gains it is either because you aren't eating properly or aren't working out properly. If you think you are cursed to be naturally thin then it sounds like you aren't eating enough. When I was 20 I was able to go from 165 lbs to 180 lbs in 16 weeks with mostly muscle gains. I had to eat every 3 hours. I only went to the gym three times a week but pushed every exercise to failure. No offense, but because it worked for you doesn't mean it's the magic solution. I've done almost exactly what you describe while friends and roommates did the same program: I added microscopic mass, they bulked up. A good place to see a wider sampling is the P90X photo forum. Almost without exception, the heavier set people will become cut and add muscle mass, while the thin guys will have much, much more modest gains. Don't get me wrong, in the grand scheme I realize it's a blessing to trend thin, but it does come with its own challenges! :)

RE: Body development - swimming versus dryland

Former Member — Sat, 06 Nov 2010 06:42:51 GMT

Each with his curse :). You say that, but try lifting for years on end with gruelingly slow gains. It wears on you too!

RE: Body development - swimming versus dryland

Former Member — Sat, 06 Nov 2010 05:15:39 GMT

Each with his curse :). You say that, but try lifting for years on end with gruelingly slow gains. It wears on you too! If you lift weights without gains it is either because you aren't eating properly or aren't working out properly. If you think you are cursed to be naturally thin then it sounds like you aren't eating enough. When I was 20 I was able to go from 165 lbs to 180 lbs in 16 weeks with mostly muscle gains. I had to eat every 3 hours. I only went to the gym three times a week but pushed every exercise to failure.

RE: Body development - swimming versus dryland

rtodd — Sat, 06 Nov 2010 04:07:50 GMT

If you are in your 20's then you could certainly lift heavy if you want, but it depends on what you want to do in the pool in terms of events. 100 and under or over 100? Under 100, or say a one minute effort would benefit from strong fast twich muscles that store anerobic energy. Over a minute effort has a large aerobic component and the extra bulk will start working against you. When I was running I did alot of plyometrics like bounding, box jumping, jump squats, power cleans and sprint starts which is really like weightlifting. These dynamic compound muscle group power excersizes would translate well to swimming in the areas of starts and turns and general explosiveness. As far as weightlifting, I think you could do some pulling movements in the gym like pull ups for back strength, but be carefull with benching and pushing excersizes as you could hurt a shoulder or tear a pec. With swimming you want strength through a tremendous range of motion. This range of motion will allow you to maintain streamline and swim powerfully yet loose. If you loose range of motion from just lifting heavy you will swim tight which comes from triggering the antagonistic muscle groups as you try to put your arms where they don't naturally want to be as you try to execute the the ideal entry catch and pull. Loose is fast! I always wanted to try Yoga. Something else to explore.

RE: Body development - swimming versus dryland

rtodd — Sat, 06 Nov 2010 03:47:37 GMT

How old are you?

RE: Body development - swimming versus dryland

mjtyson — Sat, 06 Nov 2010 02:23:15 GMT

...I'm just naturally thin... I just can't get past hating you for this. :)

RE: Body development - swimming versus dryland

Former Member — Fri, 05 Nov 2010 11:04:23 GMT

Hah, thanks, I do appreciate it. I may as well post photos to show what I'm talking about. And while this isn't exactly a bodybuilding forum, I do appreciate your guys' help in this! So, this is me (from a set of 90 day photos after completing P90X) i1014.photobucket.com/.../temp.jpg This would be the goal: www.rankopedia.com/.../29857.gif So it's not a huge ways off, I just need to figure out how these guys are bulking without getting the usual meat head look most guys get from lifting too much. I figured the sprint swimming would help with the back and chest, but again, I'm not sure. As it stands, I seem to be built a lot more like the Mark Spitz generation of swimmers than this current one. But I have to imagine that somewhere between dryland, sprint swimming, and diet that target is attainable.. (?)

RE: Body development - swimming versus dryland

Former Member — Fri, 05 Nov 2010 10:49:42 GMT

Let me ask this then, as I'm almost beginning to feel like a detective: When I was doing general training, I worked out at a local college's gym. The swimmers were definitely built differently than any of the other athletes. Gymnasts, footballers, pretty much everyone looked like they were in shape, but all within the same general mold, the same one as the guys who were just lifting for physique. The swimmers, on the other hand, were definitely built differently. Don't really need to explain this to any of you here, I'm sure. But as I've seen and has been mentioned, swimming alone doesn't build you. But then weights alone don't build what I saw either. Is there some sort of magical combination that happens when you do both that results in what I see in today's pro swimmer type of build? In other words, plenty of evidence shows that neither A nor B do it, so I wonder if together they make C? :) I realize genetics have a role to play, but given I'm so close I'd like to determine whatever I can here to get that much closer. Thanks. Yeah, I think that swimming a lot early in life leads to the general shape, and then taking up lifting later kind of builds it out. Basically it's all about the lats. Most "bodybuilding" lifting routines focus a lot on peripheral muscles, whereas the swimmer look, as I understand it (and which people seem to think is desirable), involves large lats. So, do a lot of chin-ups. This is all 100% speculative, by the way.

RE: Body development - swimming versus dryland

Former Member — Fri, 05 Nov 2010 10:04:25 GMT

RE: Body development - swimming versus dryland

Former Member — Fri, 05 Nov 2010 08:39:31 GMT

Weights. What you're interested in is called bodybuilding. Look into it :)